Thomas Pepper

[Gwil]

- I could order a death certificate for Thomas Kennedy but will it ever prove that he is definitely Thomas Pepper?

It's quite confusing and I apologise if it's already known but hopefuly the below will show he is the same man.

The CWGC entry for Thomas Kennedy 19518 who died 28 5 1917 is endorsed " see PEPPER, the true family name.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/4029156/kennedy,-thomas/

and

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/670798/pepper,-thomas-kennedy/

The Soldiers Effects Register for this CWGC man shows that payment was made to Elizabeth Pepper , his widow. BUT...the register has him as Joseph Kennedy and has an endorsement 'alias PEPPER'

(Ancestry link) = https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60506/42511_6117462_0098-00267?pid=305070&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DeVd14%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3DUKArmyRegistersEffects%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26_F8007A65%3D19518%26_F8007A65_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3Da63%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D6%26h%3D305070%26recoff%3D78%252079%26ml_rpos%3D7&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=eVd14&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

The Soldiers Died Great War database for Joseph Kennedy 19518 RDC ex RWF etc etc as per CWGC shows he was born Manchester, enlisted & resided Caernarfon.
Ancestry link =  https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=eVd15&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=UKsoldiersGreatWar&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&MS_AdvCB=1&_F8007A65=19518&_F8007A65_x=1&MSAV=2&uidh=a63&pcat=39&fh=6&h=58084&recoff=52%2053&ml_rpos=7

Notwithstanding the names/aliases used above the following, recorded from Caernarfon & Denbigh Herald 1 6 1917 ties it all up
" Yesterday the body of Pte Thomas Kennedy Pepper of the Royal Defence Corps was brought to Carnarvon from Chester under Military Escort. Pepper was a member of the old Militia and served throughout the South African war and on the outbreak of the present war joined the RDC. After being for some time at Marconi Wireless Station he was transferred to Chester where he contracted pneumonia and died. The funeral took place this afternoon at Llanbeblig. He leaves a widow, four sons (two of whom are in France) and four daughters. "

Added to this is the burial book entry.

St Peblig Parish burial book shows that on 1st June 1917 Thomas Kennedy Pepper of the Royal Infirmary, Chester and of 30 Wesley Street, Caernarfon was buried aged 46 years. W Watkin Jones Curate was officiating.

I was hoping that Elizabeth Kennedy Pepper's burial entry would show the same address but she is showing a Widnes one.
Elizabeth Kennedy Pepper   71 Irwell Street, Widnes   07 MAR 1928   59
(from Keith's Carnavon Traders website    http://www.carnarvontraders.com/burxpe25237.shtml )

[Gwil]

Just to complicate things a bit further regarding his name etc

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1219/30599_157438-00296?pid=1085254&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DeVd16%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3DBritishArmyService%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26gsln%3Dkennedy%26gsln_x%3D1%26_F8007A65%3D3577%26_F8007A65_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3Da63%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D0%26h%3D1085254%26recoff%3D57%252058%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=eVd16&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=30599_157438-00321

This is the Ancestry link to the records of a Joseph Kennedy, Tailor, 19 Shirehall Street, Caernarfon who enlisted in RWF Special Reserves as 3577 in 1908. He declares previous service in the Militia and, in fact the paperwork shows this.
He stated he was born in St Marks, Leicester!
The bottom of the page gives the info  he married Elizabeth Jones 21 3 1886 and gives names & d o b's for seven of his children.
The document in the link is the last but one in his file. Here's the start.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1219/30599_157438-00296?pid=1085254&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DeVd16%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3DBritishArmyService%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26gsln%3Dkennedy%26gsln_x%3D1%26_F8007A65%3D3577%26_F8007A65_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3Da63%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D0%26h%3D1085254%26recoff%3D57%252058%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=eVd16&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=30599_157438-00296

[suepepper]

wow that's amazing- thank you so much !
its so weird that he was living as Thomas Pepper on the 1901 and 1911 census and then used an alias when he was in the army-  do you think he was born as Thomas Pepper  or was he born Joseph Kennedy ?

[Gwil]

It is indeed weird. It's giving me quite a headache Sue!!

Further back in the thread there's a post from Nicola which may provided the answer.

[suepepper]

sorry about that Gwil, I appreciate all your hard work Thank you

[Nicolabuckleypepper]

He was born as Thomas Kennedy and served in the war as Kennedy but then became served as Kennedy Pepper after stealing the lamb/sheep and after the name Pepper is still being forwarded now. Joseph Pepper is T Kennedy Pepper’s son

[Nicolabuckleypepper]

Also Christopher Pepper’s son Eric Pepper passed away this morning

[keyboard86]

  Fascinating reading, so the birth of Joseph Pepper b c 1895/6 why can I not find it, I have all the others?
Other than Leicester or Ashby Z?
The Service record date of birth bears no resemblance to the Joseph Pepper b 1896 in 1939 who died in Carnarvon?
What was the parentage of the Joseph K Pepper who married 1914 Carnarvon to Elizabeth Jones?

Nicola, how do you know he was "Born Thomas Kennedy"

Birth of Joseph Pepper
From Army Records above 13th June 1895 and 1939 1st July 1896
Keyboard86

[suepepper]

Me again, following on from all the previous information and advice and having already tried for marriage certificate (26/3/86) for Thomas Pepper and Elizabeth Jones from the GRO, I tried again and requested one for Joseph Kennedy and Elizabeth but that was rejected too.  I have tried a census search on Joseph Kennedy birth place of birth as St marks Leicester as that is what he filled in on his army application when he was 22 in 1885 occupation Tailor.
The only census entry I have found so far is for a Joseph Kennedy in 1871 with parents Patrick and Maria in St Marks Leciester.  Is it too much of a leap of faith to think this could be the right Joseph Kennedy? any thoughts?