DebUSA Scavenger Hunt Part 2. (Everybody welcome to join in)

[tiggi]

I am not 100% sure but think it just means that they were a travelling Amusement and as they had to put down on Census where people were  from town villiage county etc
For a travelling Circus it didn't come under that  and as they were like so many people in one place of different origins easier to put Circus ( but mind you it helps when you are looking for them lol)
Lots of travellers did different things horse trading basket making mat making as trades, but many went and worked for Circus & fairs having their own amusement business I think that's where the fairs that go around Uk stem from today
So you had really 2 types of travellers the real romani lone travellers and the amusement travellers I think myself it helps to define the two
although as families they inter mingled
Way back before Census records there were those that ran Dance booths another type of Amusement entertainment by traveller's ( not always legal)
and its from that the fairs etc stem but then we also have foreign persons coming over here with circus as amusement and the romani people saw it as a way to make money ( clever people changing with the times attaching themselves to circus)
hope that explains it for you

[toni*]

i am going to pst the PM on here as i forgot for one moment that there are other Penfold / Orchard researchers like you Tiggi!   

Hi Deb, Lorraine has a circus thread on here i asked her to check for Penfold and Orchard bearing in mind that Edward was bapt. at Sumemrcote Fair (St Enoder) this is what she found:~

Hi Toni

Iv found these entries on the 1891 circus censes

Caravan and tent, Bowden Down, Brentor, Devon 1891
(PRO Pc 1751 Folio 12 Pg 17 Sched 123)
Joseph Orchard, head, 28, licensed hawker, Devon, Culmstock
Susan Orchard, wife, 28, licensed hawer, Bristol
Sally Orchard, daugher, 8, Somerset, Withycombe
Billy Orchard, son, 5, Somerset, Brendon Hill
Abraham Orchard, son, 2, Cornwall, Roche

Also these on the 1881 cirus census

Caravans, Udalls Field, Lower Richmond, Putney, Surrey 1881 
PRO Ref RG11    Piece 0662    Folio 59    Page 1+
Robert PENFOLD M 31  M Putney, Surrey, Head Travellers
Mary A. PENFOLD M 30  F Putney, Surrey, Wife Travellers
Louisa PENFOLD   3  F Hackney, Middlesex, (Daur) Travellers
Henry PENFOLD   1  M Battersea, Surrey, (Son) Travellers
Caravans, Udalls Field, Lower Richmond, Putney, Surrey 1881 
PRO Ref RG11    Piece 0662    Folio 59    Page 1+
William PENFOLD M 32  M N K, England Head Traveller
Priscilla ((Presella)) PENFOLD M 31  F Putney, Surrey, Wife Traveller
Edward PENFOLD   6  M Battersea, Surrey, Son Traveller
James PENFOLD   1  M Wanstead, Essex,  Son Traveller
Ellen PENFOLD   12  F Battersea, Surrey, Dau Traveller
Nancy PENFOLD   8  F Battersea, Surrey, Dau Traveller


hope they help

Lorraine


not quite sure of the signifigance of a circus census, is it different to a normal one ?

[deb usa]

Hi tiggi 

I was thinking the same myself ... I think that the circus/entertainment/traveller census just makes it easier to look up.

Thanks for that Toni ....

deb 

[toni*]

having posed the question what if the difference between the two census i thought you might be interested in the reply :~

circus folk are not on the normal census records as they where classed travellers so they had a seperate census done which includes fairground gypse hawkers and general travelleres

lorraine


so there you go then 

[casalguidi]

Hi Lorraine

circus folk are not on the normal census records as they where classed travellers so they had a seperate census done which includes fairground gypse hawkers and general travelleres

That makes no sense to me whatsoever

There wasn't a separate census for circus folk or travellers.  From 1871 all "travellers" should be listed in the census in the normal way ie. as they appeared on the enumerators route.  There was no instruction to include them in 1841 or 1851 though occasionally they were recorded by conscientious enumerators.  In 1861 separate forms were provide to list those not living in houses and these are usually to be found at the end of each parish/district etc..  You might find the following link helpful as to who was and wasn't included:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hitch/gendocs/census2.html#IT

Casalguidi

[cathayb]

i dont know about hunts.but has this thred closed now?i am looking for info on henry penfold who married ocean hughes.i can be contacted at

Moderator Comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the secure personal message system to share email addresses and other personal material. Thank You

[deb usa]

Cathayb

hi ...I have left a message on the traveller's Boards ... i , like you are descendant og john penfold and harriet james ... Your henry who ,married Ocean Hughes is the brother of my Thomas who married Soffia  Orchard ...

I am so happy to meet you .... I have  info on Your Henry and a photo of him and Ocean.  Wish I had a photo of my lot...


deb you cousin somehow 

[Tephra]

Hey fantastic, another connection made through the Scavenger Hunts.   I'm really happy for you Deb.

And Welcome to RootsChat Cathayb, I hope you'll have many hours of fun and learning here.   The Hunts are ongoing, they never stop as new information is coming in all the time.  If you'd like to be a part of the Scavenger Hunts, just send me a PM and I'll put you on the list.


Barbara

[tiggi]

Hi Cathayb
I am related to you too and know of someone related to Ocean hughes
 If you message me I will chat to you
Hi Debs how you doing ?
I would love a photo of Henry & Ocean please could you send it to me sandy