Pre 1855

[kilconquhar]

Hi all

I've posted previously trying to trace Gourlay descendants from Fife  (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,244491.0.html)

I'm stuggling with events prior to 1855 and wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction

I have a death certificate in 1866 in Kilconquhar for James Gourlay (lets call him James 2) who is shown as 63.

I cant find James's 2 birth - Can you help ?

His parents on his death certificate are shown as James (lets call him James 1) and Christina (Nee Pearson)  who I believe married 8 th Dec 1797 in Ceres

I have James 1 & Christina as 66 & 70 years old on 1841 census
I then have James 1 as 80 on 1851 census
I believe therefore Christina may have died between 1841 and 1851

I cant find the death of James 1 which I believe is between 1851 and 1861 ( if after 1855 should confirm his parents ??)

They may be James and Margaret Lyell or could be Thomas and Margaret Webster

Can anyone help or give pointers on pre 1855 events and how you confirm you  have the correct people as detail present on certificates post 1855 are missing

Thanks
John

[JAP]

Hello John,

Two possible sources are the pre-1855 Deaths CD put out by the Fife Family History Society, and the pre-1855 Memorial Inscriptions booklets written by the Mitchells.

Have you looked at the FFHS site (it has heaps of information and a good search facility) at:
http://www.fifefhs.org/

And have you tried the Rootsweb Fife list?

Also, much of the 1841 census of Fife is online at FreeCEN.

And LDS films of the various areas?

But, unfortunately, there is often no way of confirming information.  So many events don't show up on SP or the IGI or in the films.  So many pre-1855 births/baptisms weren't recorded at all, or may be in church registers which didn't survive or haven't been indexed and/or are in surviving church registers but don't show up on SP* or in the IGI.

*SP has only birth/baptisms and marriages from the OPRs of the established Church of Scotland.  But there were many breakaway groups.  See:
http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html

No doubt you know all the above but just in case ... 

Regards,

JAP

[sancti]

Marriage record on SP

19/11/1797 PEARSON CHRISTIAN married JAMES GOURLAY/ at Cameron /FIFE

If you view it, it may give parent names

[JAP]

The IGI has two records of the marriage (presumably Banns being proclaimed in the bride's and the groom's parish).

James GOURLAY & Christian PEARSON, 19 Nov 1797, Cameron, Fife
James GOURLAY & Christian PEIRSON, 8 Dec 1797, Ceres, Fife

The entries might at least indicate which of the parties lived in which parish.  Possibly nothing more - but one doesn't know until one looks.

Where were James 1 & Christian/Christina in the 1841 census?
Some parish films include burials, so it would be worth checking this out.
If (say) they were in Kilconquhar, a check of the Family History Library catalogue on FamilySearch shows that the parish records for Kilconquhar include burials 1796-1851.  You could order such a film in to your nearest LDS Family History centre.

What was the birthplace of James 2 (from censuses).

JAP
 

[kilconquhar]

Jap

Many thanks

I have a print of the 2 *OPR records from Scotlands People and believe the second to be the marriage. The parish Info is given though no parent details

The 1841 Census was for Kilconquhar

Christine suggests @ http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=80354#80354 that the burial may be 27 August, 1853 but I need to confirm this if possible

My print of the 1841 census doesn't seem to show the birth place - I'll find online copies of 1841 and 1851 and let you know

Regards
John

[kilconquhar]

Jap

The 1851 Census suggests James (47) was born in Kilconquhar,  this doesnt align with anyone in Russell's post at Talking Scotland (below)

[JAP]

Hello again John,

You've actually done very well indeed to get as much information and as far back as you have!  That is, to:
* The death of James 2 GOURLAY in 1866; and the death of his wife Elisabeth RODGER in 1852.

* The marriage of James GOURLAY and Elisabeth ROGER in 1828 (from an LDS submission on the IGI and from SP).

* A birthplace and approximate birth date for James 2 GOURLAY - born Kilconquhar (from the 1851 census) ca 1803 (from age of 63 at death in 1866, and age of 47 from the 1851 census).
Do you have his age and birthplace from the 1861 census? 

* To the names (from the death certificate of James 2) and approximate ages (from censuses) of his parents James 1 GOURLAY & Christian/Christina PEARSON/PEIRSON.  Christian was 70 in the 1841 (as James's age is not rounded down to the nearest 5 - they were supposed to be in the 1841 - Christian's probably isn't either) giving an approximate birth date of 1771.  James 1 was 66 in 1841, 80 in 1851 giving an approximate birth date of 1771-1775.
What was the birthplace of James 1 in the 1851?  Was he a Coal Miner in both 1841 and 1851?  Was James 1 living in Kilconquhar in both censuses?

* To the marriage of James 1 & Christian in 1797 recorded in Cameron and in Ceres (from the IGI and SP).

* To a possible death for James 1 in Kilconquhar in 1853 ...

But there are still other possibilities including:

#The Fife Family History Society website.  It has a great global search facility - try various spellings (e.g. GOURLAY, GOURLEY, GOURLY, etc).

#The LDS Kilconquhar film which includes burials to 1851 (the FFHS web site - as you will find - has a list of Kilconquhar burials from 1847 to 1854).  Sometimes the burial/death information in the OPRs is no help but occasionally I've found information which has resolved a puzzle for me.

#The Mitchell booklets of Memorial Inscriptions

#The Rootsweb Fife list - for posting a request, and also searching its archives for names of interest.

Regards,

JAP
PS: A couple of the people who have responded to your request on TalkingScot are also members of RootsChat; not necessarily under the same posting names.

[kilconquhar]

Hello again

I'm cross posting various threads as suggested by JAP in the hope someone out there may have something

Glasgow - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,247007.0.html
Durham - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,260687.0.html
London - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,262008.0.html