1841 / 1851 / 1861 ~ GLOUCESTER ~ look up please

[ishtat]

Hi ishtat

Just having a little giggle about "the coffee shop adulterer".         Well, I wonder what became of this Isabella ... perhaps we can find her too ?   (Mmmm ... now I'm getting ahead of myself).

It sounds like you have some wonderful information - and thanks, would dearly love to have details of anything you care to share.         

I have John's New Zealand Death Cert., a copy of his 1881 bankruptcy file;  the Letters of Administration record (he died intestate and seemingly penniless).   (Nothing exciting, but "records" nevertheless).    There is also a Coroner's report (1898) - fairly well covered in a newspaper article (I think there is probably a reference to it on the AUS thread)?     Archives New Zealand have this report on film, but because it was written up on blue-coloured paper, it has not photographed well and is virtually impossible to read.   (I can/must, send a request to the Chief Archivist, to ascertain whether I can view the original - though it possibly carries no more detail than the newspaper article).

And, Aunt Nora's diary ... what a delight to have a treasure such as that.     Oh yes, absolutely, it's contents should not be divulged.

So ...  looking forward to this new information  ... and who knows, by marrying some of this up with what we already have, there may even arise, some new developments ?
(Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic ?) 


Ah, RICHINGS  ... what a family !

Lu

Sorry I forgot to mention on my previous post that Isabella Underhill was christened at Thornbury Glos on 30 May 1841. The town where John Richings had opened a butchers business after his marriage to Sarah Ann.

ishtat

[Lucy2]

Hi ishtat   

Thank you very much.

Yes, I will contact you shortly, via the PM facility here.

Lu

[ishtat]

Refer posting today at 15:07

1841 Census: Long St, Wotton-Under-Edge, GLS
RICHINGS John, Male, 50, born Gloucestershire
RICHINGS Hannah, Female, 53, born Gloucestershire
RICHINGS Jacob, Male, 17, born Gloucestershire
COOK Eliza, Female, 24
COOK Edward, Male, 12
COOK George, Male, 10

1851 Census: Haw ST., 95
RICHINGS Jacob, Head, Unmarried, 26, Baker (Master), W-U-E
RICHINGS Hannah, Mother, Married, 63, W-U-E
GAYARD Elizabeth, Niece, 11, Scholar, W-U-E

1851 CENSUS: Long St., 57
RICHINGS John, Head, Married, 62, Baker, W-U-E
RICHINGS Eliza, Wife, Married, 34, Trowbridge, Wilts
BARTLETT Christina, Serv., Unmarried, 19, Servant, W-U-E

Burial at St. Mary's W-U-E in 1894 of Eliza RICHINGS (otherwise Cook) (aged 76).

It appears that in 1841 John and his wife Hannah were living together and also living with them was 24 year old Eliza Cook (and two other children with surname COOK).

By 1851 Hannah was living with her son Jacob (note she still gives her marital status as married), but John appears to be living with Eliza Cook and she is shown as Eliza Richings and as his wife.  On her burial details her name is shown as (otherwise COOK) so maybe they never officially married.

The next question is whether Eliza Cook is related to Mary COOK, the wife of John and Hannah's son John.  John and Mary are the parents of John (Thomas) Richings.

The wicked webs we weave!

CW

Hi Cello,

Amidst the excitement I appear to have caused last week I forgot to thank you for your work on the earlier John Richings (b 1790 the baker). I had never been happy with the work I had done trying to connect John Richings (1816-17  1895) with his parents and yours clearly is much more thorough.Thanks.

Ishtat

[cello]

Hi Ishtat

Thanks for your posting.  Maybe you can help me with a search I am stuck on.  Just to summarise a few bits from my research which are only relevant to two sons:

John RICHINGS & Mary COOK (m. 26-04-1838) had among the 9 children that I know of:
A first born son, John RICHINGS who married Sarah Ann BLIZARD on 31-01-1860 (then later deserted her and scived off to NZ)
and a third born son, William RICHINGS who married Marianne HOPKINS on 01-11-1866.

John and Sarah had a son John Blizard RICHINGS (born 29-Dec-1863) who married Elizabeth Mary PERRETT on 30-12-1885, and their second child was Mabel RICHINGS, born in 1888.

William and Marianne had a son Frank Edward RICHINGS (B. 30-11-1876), who was the first cousin of John Blizard RICHINGS.  Frank married Bertha KING on 22-06-1910 and one of the witnesses was John B. RICHINGS.

I am assuming that the witness John B. was Franks first cousin John Blizard RICHINGS.

As Frank and Bertha were married in 1910 with John as the witness, and John's daughter Mabel was married in 1910, maybe Frank and Bertha attended Mabels wedding.  If possible, could you please check your photos for me when you have time.

My search has stopped with Fank and Bertha's wedding.  I cannot find them on the 1911 census.  Now found on 1911 census in Ambala, India.
My great-grandmother was Frank's sister Charlotte and I have correspondence from both Charlotte to my grand-mother, and from Frank to their brother Charles, implying that Frank had a daughter named Molly.

I cannot find Molly anywhere (or indeed any children from the marriage of Frank and Bertha - see Reply 71 below), but the letters also say that Molly married and also had at least one child. Sadly all my efforts to put the letters into some date context have failed.  It is possible Molly was Bertha's child prior to marriage to Frank.  I have looked at all Birth records on BMD from just prior to the marriage up to 1930.  After Sep 1911 the BMD records show mothers maiden name but I have found no reference to KING.  The children born between 1910 and Sep 1911 I have double-checked as may as possible - hunting them down on 1911C but with no luck.
Franks' (undated) letter to his brother Charles implies that Molly is about 16, and Frank was living in Aston-On-Carrant, Gloucestershire. I can only confirm that the letter was written AFTER 1923 and before 1948!!!

If you or your mother can help me in any way to identify Molly I would be most appreciative as Molly's child/children could still be alive today and I would dearly love to find them.

Regards
Cello
PS - It is lovely and sunny today in Oxfordshire! I'm getting homesick for Aus!

[trish1120]

Hi Cello,

It is highly likely that Molly is a shortened version or pet name.

Have you discounted something like this birth;

June 1911, Richings Hilda.M, Swindon, 5a 20

Also noticed parents married Dursley and there are quite a few births post 1911 there with Mothers name as Richings.

It has happened to other Rootschatters that the Mothers maiden name has not been on the index only her married.


Trish

EDIT; there is also a marriage 1929 for the Hilda above on Freebmd

[cello]

Thanks Trish

Yes, I have discussed the name 'Molly' with several people and have assumed it is a pet name.

I have already searched the Hilda M. in Swindon.  On the 1911 Census she was four days old and living with her parents John & Florence.

I have followed up several in the period just after the marriage but have discounted any that looked vaguely hopeful even some with Mother's maiden name RICHINGS that looked promising.

Thank you for your time.  I will keep looking though until I get an answer.

Regards
Cello

[ishtat]

Hi Ishtat

Thanks for your posting.  Maybe you can help me with a search I am stuck on.  Just to summarise a few bits from my research which are only relevant to two sons:

John RICHINGS & Mary COOK (m. 26-04-1838) had among the 9 children that I know of:
A first born son, John RICHINGS who married Sarah Ann BLIZARD on 31-01-1860 (then later deserted her and scived off to NZ)
and a third born son, William RICHINGS who married Marianne HOPKINS on 01-11-1866.

John and Sarah had a son John Blizard RICHINGS (B. APPROX. 1864) who (I think) married Elizabeth Mary PERRETT on 30-12-1885, and their second child was Mabel RICHINGS, born about 1889.

William and Marianne had a son Frank Edward RICHINGS (B. 30-11-1876), who was the first cousin of John Blizard RICHINGS.  Frank married Bertha KING on 22-06-1910 and one of the witnesses was John B. RICHINGS.

I am assuming that the witness John B. was Franks first cousin John Blizard RICHINGS.

As Frank and Bertha were married in 1910 with John as the witness, and John's daughter Mabel was married in 1910, maybe Frank and Bertha attended Mabels wedding.  If possible, could you please check your photos for me when you have time.

My search has stopped with Fank and Bertha's wedding.  I cannot find them on the 1911 census.
My great-grandmother was Frank's sister Charlotte and I have correspondence from both Charlotte to my grand-mother, and from Frank to their brother Charles, implying that Frank had a daughter named Molly.

I cannot find Molly anywhere (or indeed any children from the marriage of Frank and Bertha), but the letters also say that Molly married and also had at least one child. Sadly all my efforts to put the letters into some date context have failed.  It is possible Molly was Bertha's child prior to marriage to Frank.  I have looked at all Birth records on BMD from just prior to the marriage up to 1930.  After Sep 1911 the BMD records show mothers maiden name but I have found no reference to KING.  The children born between 1910 and Sep 1911 I have double-checked as may as possible - hunting them down on 1911C but with no luck.
Franks' (undated) letter to his brother Charles implies that Molly is about 16, and Frank was living in Aston-On-Carrant, Gloucestershire. I can only confirm that the letter was written AFTER 1923 and before 1948!!!

If you or your mother can help me in any way to identify Molly I would be most appreciative as Molly's child/children could still be alive today and I would dearly love to find them.

Regards
Cello
PS - It is lovely and sunny today in Oxfordshire! I'm getting homesick for Aus!

John Blizard Richings b Thornbury 29 Dec 1863 d 24 Jan 1941
He married Elizabeth Mary Perrett (b 19 May 1864) his first cousin on 30 12 1885 she died 24 Jul 1948.

Assumption about John B is correct, plenty of JR's but only one JBR.

I understand that Mabel b 8 Sep 1888 d  6 Jun 1966 married Fred Grimes on 10 Sep 1913.

The Photo is probably not helpful but I will Email you a copy anyway with a key which identifies about half those present. The photo appears to include only immediate family of the wedding party - and that was a fair number.

Molly Richings definitely existed . She ran some sort of riding establishment in Dursley in the 1950's and my wife took riding lessons with her. My wife's out at the moment but will see if she can remember more later today.

If you can pm me an Email address I will send the photos and give you a couple of good Richings contacts in UK.

Ishtat

 My wife has returned and all she remembers is that Molly Richings had a modest riding operation which she ran from the stables of the old Rangers House in Dursley . This big House was demolished in the mid to late 1950's to make room for a council estate. My wife who was perhaps 8 or 10 at the time remembers Molly as a woman perhaps in her 30's possibly 40's and she is fairly sure she was single.

I know a couple of people in the UK who will definitely know her and will ask them.

[cello]

Hi Ishtat

Thank you very much for your reply. I will send a PM today.

I only have a few minutes to reply now but I am wondering if we have 2 Molly's somewhere?

I cannot find my g-grandmothers letter right now when I need it but will look for it again tonight, but I do remember she was quite old and I think the letter was written in the early 1940's.  Although the letter was dated from memory it was quite rambling and the context of the letter made me think that what she wrote about Molly could be several years old.  However, she wrote that Molly had married a policeman and that when she had last seen her she had a baby, but she confesses she couldn't remember if it was a boy or girl!

On Frank's undated letter he writes "Molly has left school and we have apprenticed her to the haridressing, etc in Cheltenham.  You would hardly know her now she's nearly as tall as me".  I suspect then that Molly was about 15/16 when he wrote the letter.  I know it was written after Sep 1923 because he mentions the death of an uncle on the Hopkins side of the family.

Any help you can give me is most appreciated.
Regards
Cello

[cello]

I have started a new thread - Searching for Molly Richings - at:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,398092.msg2682592.html#msg2682592

CW