Author Topic: Tilby/James mystery still unsolved - FYI those who helped before  (Read 4669 times)

Offline katefarr

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Tilby/James mystery still unsolved - FYI those who helped before
« on: Monday 08 October 07 06:08 BST (UK) »
Hi to all

This message is especially to those wonderful people who helped me look up the marriage of William A Davis and Miriam A James, I thought I would update you.  I ordered the marriage cert. hoping it would shed some light on the surname of Tilby (which was on their son Stanley Alfred Davis's marriage and death cert.).  Well, the marriage cert arrived today and to surprise there was no Tilby name on the cert. at all.   :-\

The previous thread I am speaking of is : http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,257790.0.html

The information I received is as follows:
Married on 10 Oct 1910
WIlliam Albert Davis (widower)
born Gulgong NSW
aged 35yrs
father John Davis (Deceased)
mother Sarah Matilda Davis (SIC)

Married Miriam Annie James (spinster)
born Dubbo NSW
aged 21years
father unknown
mother Annie James

I cannot find either of their birth reg. but it still sheds no light on where the Tilby name came from.  I just wanted to thank you all again for your help and update you as to what happened.

Kind regards

Kate

Australia - Hitchen, Staggs, Little, Warren, White, McLoughin (and variants).
Lanc, Eng - Hitchen, Stirrup, Gould, Foster, Cowens, Howard, White, Coppock, Atkinson
Dur, Eng- Cowens
Northum, Eng - Cowens, Noble, Dunn
Kent, Eng - Staggs, Albury, Miller
Hamp,Eng, London - Warren, Peates, Price
Germany/East Prussia - Kammer, Weber, Ostach, Staub
Armagh, Nth Ireland - Little, Boyd
Fermanagh, Nth Ireland - McLoughlin
Flintshire, Wales - Jones, Lewis

Offline tropicalj

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 11,229
  • six grandkids
    • View Profile
Re: Tilby/James mystery still unsolved - FYI those who helped before
« Reply #1 on: Monday 08 October 07 06:37 BST (UK) »
Hello  there Kate

NOW  that  is a shame  but  it there may  be some explanations  in  it.  Perhaps  her  fathers name  that appears as  unknown  was Tilby  but  they  (her parents) never did  marry,   he  may have been  allready  married.  Perhaps  it  was  a  made up  name  so  they  children  would  not  know  she was  illegitimate and  that the eldest child  was born  before  the parents  marriage, folk  did like  to  hide  a  lot of  things  back  in  the day ;D  and  I  wonder  why  the  birth  was  before  the  marriage  given  that  Sophia  had died  in 1906?

There are  no  births  to  match William Albert Davis!

Did  the  certificate include the details of  his  first wife IE  place and date of  marriage  her death etc?  Edited  by Jenn   I see that marriage online.  I  wonder if  there may be  different  parents  and place of  birth  involved  for William  Albert?


regards Jenn
When you search for ancestors, you find great friends!
I live in Townsville researching
TOWNSEND,PINNEGAR, STRANGE, PULLEN, GRIFFIN from Wiltshire,,
SHOEBRIDGE, VINALL, BRINDLE, Kent
BAYLEY, Dorset,Yorkshire,
HAIR, Durham,
CUMMINS, BROWNLESS from Yorkshire,
EDSALL,  Cornwall,
MORGAN, HENNESSY, BAKER,  Ireland.
VAN REYK Sri Lanka
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.au

Offline Robert Coble

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,446
  • crazy !!!! Crazy !!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Tilby/James mystery still unsolved - FYI those who helped before
« Reply #2 on: Monday 08 October 07 08:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Kate,
Do you think this is William A Davis marriages there in Dubbo they are as Follows:


 8027/1899 DAVIS   WILLIAM A      ALLEN SOPHIA      DUBBO
Child:
 5327/1900      DAVIS      JOSEPH      WILLIAM      SOPHIA      DUBBO



Second Marriage:
 11968/1910 DAVIS   WILLIAM A      JAMES MIRIAM A  DUBBO



This is his First Wife death:

 4878/1906      DAVIS      SOPHIA      WILLIAM      MARY      DUBBO


Dose this fit with what your saying.

The only one I can find there that is close to your William
Davis is this one that has a Father as John and Mother as Sarah there

 12248/1864      DAVIS      WILLIAM H      JOHN      SARAH      ORANGE 

Regards,
Ozybob
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Coble or Covell, Coule Australia, Canada, USA  @ England.
Barker Australia @ England
Walker Australia, England @ South America.
Bristol Australia @ England.
Nash Australia @ England.

Offline JAP

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *
  • Posts: 5,034
    • View Profile
Re: Tilby/James mystery still unsolved - FYI those who helped before
« Reply #3 on: Monday 08 October 07 13:10 BST (UK) »
Hello Kate,

It is a good idea to keep all information on one thread (the original thread) rather than starting a new thread - saves people from checking back and forth, and avoids duplication.

From the other thread we know that:
William A DAVIS married Sophia ALLEN in 1899 in Dubbo.
They had Joseph DAVIS in 1900 in Dubbo.
Sophia died in 1906 in Dubbo.
William A DAVIS then married Miriam A JAMES in 1910 in Dubbo.

However, we also know from the other thread that a child Alfred Stanley JAMES or DAVIS (no father named, mother Miriam) was born in 1908 in Redfern.  Do you have this certificate??  Does it give the mother's name as Miriam JAMES??

One has to wonder whether Alfred was the illegitimate child of a Mr TILBY and Miriam JAMES, brought up subsequently as his own child by William A DAVIS.  And perhaps the name TILBY was mentioned in the family and this is what has resulted in confusion on Alfred's marriage and death certificates.  Do you have both these certs?  Do they clearly give Miriam's maiden surname as TILBY?  Is the name TILBY mentioned at all on birth, marriage or death certs of any of the subsequent children (see the other thread) of William DAVIS & Miriam JAMES?

TILBY is a very rare name in the NSW BDM.  All I could find were  three male TILBY marriages - 1879 (Orange), 1905 (Sydney) and 1956 (Sydney).  The only one around the relevant time was a Stanley J TILBY marrying in Sydney in 1905.  Hmmm.

But, of course, it may have been - as Jenn has suggested - that it was Miriam's father who was a Mr TILBY (Miriam, from the marriage cert, apparently having been illegitimate).

It is certainly strange that we can't find the birth of William Albert DAVIS, Gulgong, parents John & Sarah Matilda ca 1875 or the birth of Miriam A JAMES, Dubbo, mother Annie ca 1889.

JAP


Offline Robert Coble

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,446
  • crazy !!!! Crazy !!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Tilby/James mystery still unsolved - FYI those who helped before
« Reply #4 on: Monday 08 October 07 13:56 BST (UK) »
Hi All,
Alfred S James Born: R1908/393. Sydney. Mother: Miriam Place: Sydney
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Coble or Covell, Coule Australia, Canada, USA  @ England.
Barker Australia @ England
Walker Australia, England @ South America.
Bristol Australia @ England.
Nash Australia @ England.

Offline JAP

  • RootsChat Leaver
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *
  • Posts: 5,034
    • View Profile
Re: Tilby/James mystery still unsolved - FYI those who helped before
« Reply #5 on: Monday 08 October 07 14:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Ozybob,

Might save you some work if you check out the other thread  ;)

annecaroline wrote there a while back:
"Alfred Stanley is on the birth index twice in 1908
Once under surname James
Alfred Stanley
No father
mother Miriam
Place Sydney
Reg No 393
The other under Davis
Alfred Stanley James
No father
mother Miriam
Place Sydney
Reg No 393"


Cheers  :)

JAP

Offline tropicalj

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 11,229
  • six grandkids
    • View Profile
Re: Tilby/James mystery still unsolved - FYI those who helped before
« Reply #6 on: Monday 08 October 07 22:53 BST (UK) »
Quote
However, we also know from the other thread that a child Alfred Stanley JAMES or DAVIS (no father named, mother Miriam) was born in 1908 in Redfern.  Do you have this certificate??  Does it give the mother's name as Miriam JAMES??

can  one access  a  copy  of  this  birth certificate,  it would appear to to  easy  to  do  according  to  the BDM site  after  1906 a  birth  certificate  would be  in  the restricted catergory   it seems  you  have to  be  that person  or  have a  very good reason etc

quote from  the  on line details
Quote
Because the Registry collects sensitive and private data about you and your family, and with the rise in Identity Fraud within Australia, the Registry has stringent entitlement and identification policies in place. For these reasons, certificates are categorised as 'restricted' or 'unrestricted'.

Restricted records are normally only available to the person named on the certificate and identification is always required
kind  regards Jenn
When you search for ancestors, you find great friends!
I live in Townsville researching
TOWNSEND,PINNEGAR, STRANGE, PULLEN, GRIFFIN from Wiltshire,,
SHOEBRIDGE, VINALL, BRINDLE, Kent
BAYLEY, Dorset,Yorkshire,
HAIR, Durham,
CUMMINS, BROWNLESS from Yorkshire,
EDSALL,  Cornwall,
MORGAN, HENNESSY, BAKER,  Ireland.
VAN REYK Sri Lanka
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.au

Offline katefarr

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: Tilby/James mystery still unsolved - FYI those who helped before
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 09 October 07 01:40 BST (UK) »
Hi all

Sorry for not repling earlier but we had severe weather last night, therefore safer to stay offline.  Also a sorry for starting the new thread, I didn't realise it would cause a problem and I thought by including the other thread in the message it would save people duplicating things. 

Anyway I could possibly ask Nan if she could try to order the birth cert. for her father??  She has looked for it, but cannot seem to find it.   It's worth a shot, the Tilby name is indeed rare but whether the name was made up to give Miriam some legitimacy or in fact was the name of someone who was the father...... who knows.  The birth register seems to confirm William Davis as the father considering the birth register finds  Alfred Stanley under the surnames of James and Davis...... but how curious that a Stanley Tilby was married in Sydney (were Alfred was born) around the same time.  Perhaps as suggested  Stanley Tilby was the father and to protect the child William took him as his own. 

Anyway this may be the end of the line for this poor saga as there seems to be dead ends everywhere.  I will order all the cert.s relating to this as I can and see what else I can come up with.  Will let you know.

Kind Regards Kate
Australia - Hitchen, Staggs, Little, Warren, White, McLoughin (and variants).
Lanc, Eng - Hitchen, Stirrup, Gould, Foster, Cowens, Howard, White, Coppock, Atkinson
Dur, Eng- Cowens
Northum, Eng - Cowens, Noble, Dunn
Kent, Eng - Staggs, Albury, Miller
Hamp,Eng, London - Warren, Peates, Price
Germany/East Prussia - Kammer, Weber, Ostach, Staub
Armagh, Nth Ireland - Little, Boyd
Fermanagh, Nth Ireland - McLoughlin
Flintshire, Wales - Jones, Lewis

Offline KerryKat

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tilby/James mystery still unsolved - FYI those who helped before
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 03 July 13 06:27 BST (UK) »
Hello, I am researching the Davis family on behalf of my cousins. Their grandfather was William Albert Davis (1875-1976) who married (1) Sophia Allen & (2) Miriam Annie James. Their youngest son, Ronald William Davis was my cousins' Dad. I have been able to trace Miriam forward to when she died as Miriam Annie Burns, died Bathurst 1963. Like you, I have been intrigued by the Tilby name on Alfred Davis' marriage certificate to Mary Wolfenden. The only Tilby I can locate in Dubbo around the time of Alf's birth is a Stanley Tilby. Given that Albert was born in 1908 and Miriam married William in 1910 suggests that Albert was, as stated on his original birth certificate, illegitimate. Then William Davis came along, married Miriam & reared Alfred as his own. Alfred's birth certificate states "evidence has been furnished that the full name of the within mentioned Alfred Stanley James is Alfred Stanley James Davis". Given that Alfred's second christian name is Stanley gives indication that Stanley (coupled with the Tilby name on Alf's marriage certificate) Tilby was Alf's birth father. On that certificate Miriam states she is from Richmond, Victoria and that her address is 4 Park Road (no town mentioned). It could be that Miriam wanted to create a smoke screen around herself and her baby so gave false information. The trail of these people goes cold at Dubbo with no further info about them. On one doco William Davis' parentage is listed as William & Sarah & on another John & Sarah - maybe he was William John or vice versa - thus creating another mystery. I am happy to share what info I have - maybe together we can solve these mysteries.  Look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Kerry Payne (Mrs.) My private email is (*)

(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail and names of living persons removed in accordance with RootsChat policy, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page:  http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Patrick O'Connor - Co. Galway, Ireland
Wark(e) - Tartnakelly, Limavady, Derry, N/Ireland
Heggarty - Bovally, Co.Derry, N/Ireland
Hurley- Horningsham, England
Levy/Leaver/Lever - Bolton, England
McCarthy - Balinasloe, Co. Galway, Ireland