VIC - Marriage(s) -Look up please

[Lucy2]

Hi again, All   ...    and Happy New Year     

Very many thanks - Annie, JAP, Cando -  for all the wonderful, recently contributed information.


The detective work goes on !   ('nuff said, just for now)   

MESSAGE FOR "aumarire"  ... can you help please ?

re:   Mary Ann / Marion CALDWELL's  children  ...

Do you have birth certs for - "Joseph Henry" -  (the first-born one);  for the daughter "Marion";  and also the child named "Thomas" ?    Can you post here, their d.o.b.'s and p.o.b.'s, please ?   (Thanks, we have info on the others).

Also interested in "father's occupation"  as shown on any of these records (or his death record).
AND do you have date of when Wm. and Marion CALDWELL and family, returned to AUS, please ?


Cheers
Lu

[aumarire]

Hi again,
Right, lets see what I have on Mary/Ann/Marions second marriage.
As mentioned before, I have never been able to locate a marriage for Mary Ann to William Richard Caldwell, but in several of the documents I have, they 'claim' to have married in the April of 1868 in Hokitika.
Their first born as far as I can locate was Marion Caldwell, born 4 April 1869 in Kanieri, New Zealand. Now I have a folio number for this birth, but the actual date comes from her direct family, her descendants. Now Marion married a man called John Henry Nesbitt, married on 20 July 1892 in the Manse, Clifton  Hill, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. I have this certificate)  They went on to have 4 children, however one of those children died as a young child, so only three reached adulthood.
Right, second child of Mary Ann and William Richard Caldwell was a Thomas, born abt 1871. This twig of the tree has been hard work, although having said that, I haven't spent a huge amount of time on it. I got his approx year of birth from the  ages quoted on the death certificate of his parents. This Thomas married a Martha nee Cunliff, 30 March 1897 at 29 Napier Street, South Melbourne. Both Thomas and Martha are in Fawkner Cemetery.
They went on to have 4 children.
Next child of Mary Ann and William Richard Caldwell was Eliza Jane and she was born 25 December 1872 in Kanieri, New Zealand and she died March 1954 in Melbourne, When Eliza's birth was registered, her father was recorded as William Caldwell a Miner and mother as Marion Caldwell formerly Balli. Marion registered her birth on the 12th January the following year in Hokitika.   
When Eliza died, she was recorded as being age 81 years. She is buried with her parents in the Melbourne Cemetery,  in the Presbyterian section, Compartment 0 grave 1608. It would appear that Eliza did not marry.
Next child was Joseph Henry Caldwell.
This child is listed on the 1890 death registration of his mother Mary Ann/Marion, he was listed as a deceased child. His date of birth is approx, taken from the age stated on his mothers death registration, and it is assumed that he died before 1877, as another child was born to his mother and given the same Christian name, Joseph Henry Smith Caldwell. I can not find any birth or death registration for this child in New Zealand.

I will post this info, and come back in a few minutes,

Aumarire

[aumarire]

Hi again
The next child born to the Caldwell's was Joseph Edward Caldwell, born 12 October 1874  in Hau Hau, a small settlement just out of Hokitika, New Zealand.
The marriage of John Edward and Elizabeth shows us that John was living at 1 Avoca Street, Gleb Sydney and was working as a Butcher at the time of his marriage. He is recorded as being born in Kumara and his father  as William Caldwell, a Labourer. John's mothers name is not recorded on the marriage registration.
Elizabeth was recorded as a Widow, her former marriage to a Langford, as her parents as Benjamin Baker (deceased) and Elizabeth nee Lee ( also deceased). Benjamin is recorded as a Printer. The officiating Minister was a George Hay and the witness's an A Goldsworthy and an A Doyle. Elizabeths address at the time of the marriage was 33 Boyce Street, Glebe, Sydney. The marriage is recorded as having taken place at 31 Bent Street, according to the rites of the Independant Presbyterian Church. Whether this is the Church address, or perhaps a home address with an Officiating Minister I am not sure.
   
We have no further information on the line down from John and Elizabeth Caldwell. This will require further research, which means....time....There was a Bessie A Caldwell born in Glebe in 1903. This was located in the index's, and references are as follows.  29977/1903  CALDWELL  BESSIE A  JOHN E  ELIZABETH  GLEBE. This needs further searching.
There is also a death registration for a John Caldwell, father William mother Marion, this death is ref. 5622/1911 in Granville, Sydney. NSW. This might well be John Edward Caldwell.

Next child born to the Caldwell's was William Henry Smith Caldwell ( the Smith inclusion in the name comes from William Richards mothers maiden surname)
William Henry Smith Caldwell's birth was registered by his father William. The babe William was born in Hau Hau but his birth was registered in Hokitika on the 27th December 1875. William is recorded as being a Miner and his wife as Mary Ann Caldwell formerly Hiesman. [sic]Young William was almost 6 weeks old when he died. He was buried in the Hokitika Cemetery, in the Presbyterian section, plot number 1033, cemetery block no. 56.  The following appeared in the West Coast Times newspaper on Saturday January 8th 1876.
     
Funeral Notice.
The friends of William Caldwell are respectfully invited to follow the remains of his late son to the cemetery. The funeral to move from his residence, Hau Hau, this Saturday afternoon at 3.o'clcock.
Sinclair and Jack (Undertakers).

Next child born to the Caldwell's was Joseph Henry William Smith Caldwell, on the 6 March 1877, again in HauHau.
Joseph Henry Smith Caldwell's birth was registered the day after his birth, while he was born in Hau Hau, his birth was registered by his father William in Hokitika. William is recorded as being a Miner age 32 years and born in Derry, Ireland. Marion Caldwell ( it gives her name as Marion on this cert)  is recorded as being 31 years of age and born in Melbourne. Her maiden name is recorded as Heisman. It is also worthy of noting that the marriage date for William and Marion is stated as April 1868 in Hokitika.

This Joseph married a Flora nee Hogan on the 12 March 1901 in Maryborough, Queensland, Australia and they went on to have 3 children. The family moved back to Sydney area, as all 3 children married in Sydney and had children in Sydney.

Must dash away again
Aumarire

[aumarire]

Hi again folks
I know I said a few listings back, ""Nesbitt family, which by the way,, when I come back, I will post a little story about how I came across all of them,, quite a bit of a 'good luck story'' here."", so decided I will tell you, this is not really any facts and figures here, but just a good luck story that is quite interesting.

I was living in Canberra, Australia, a number of years back, actually over 15 years ago now, and was at the National Library one day, trying to get a hold and understanding regarding the Balli Caldwell  family. I had seen a microfich index that indicated that Marion Caldwell had married a NESBITT, so wanted to check the corresponding index for Mr Nesbitt's Christian names. Went to the draws, found the fiche missing, so under my breath said something along the lines of ' darn, blast' a person standing next to me said,, whats wrong,, ( I had said it very softly, so she must have had good hearing) Anyway I told her that the 'N' fiche were missing and said I was looking for a Nesbitt family. Another man heard me telling her this, he said " do you know that there is a Nesbit/Nesbitt and Nessbit Society" to which I answered no. He said,, I will give you their contact details, perhaps you might like to write to them. I of course said thanks, and placed the address into the back of my book. I must admit that I had no intention of making contact with this Society, however, with a time lapse of about 20 weeks, I found the slip of paper again and figured, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Thank goodness I had not written to them before, and had left it until that date, as a coincidence was about to happen.
I wrote and said,,, I have a Marion Caldwell who apparently married a Mr Nesbitt, that I knew nothing at all about the family, whether they had children or not, but that Marion had been born in New Zealand, and the family had gone back to Australia and that she had married this man.
Meanwhile, on the very same day, in the same bundle of letters, a man who lives in Sydney wrote to the Society, and said, my Grandfather John Henry Nesbitt married a lady called Marion Caldwell. Marion was born in New Zealand, but she married my grandfather in Melbourne. Are you able to help me at all. Do any of your members relate to this family at all.

So what about that for a coincidence, his letter, and my letter, arrived in the same bundle of mail, so of course the person opening the mail put two and two together, and put us in touch. I have always thought, had I written to the Society as soon as I got the address, some 20 weeks before hand,, then perhaps the connection would never have been made. And of course, had I not originally cursed under my breath while searching at the National Library, and have someone overhear me, then again, the connection would never have been made, because I sure as heck had never heard of any Nesbit/Nesbitt and Nessbit Society ha ha!!!!

So that is my good luck story, a good one I think

Aumarire

[aumarire]

Hi again,

Thought I would show you what I have written down for the Nesbitt connection. This relates to Marion Caldwell and her husband John Henry Nesbitt.
 
Prior to his marriage to Marion, John Henry Nesbitt was married, however his wife died. They had a child Margaret, but as yet I haven't determined weather Marion helped raise Margaret or whether she was placed with other family members.
John and Marion met when John was performing in an opera in a theatre in Melbourne Australia. Marion was at the opera with her father, William Richard Caldwell, when after the show Marion asked her father to take her backstage to meet some of the performers. This they did, and Marion met John who was to court her and eventually marry her.
   
The marriage certificate of John and Marion shows us that John' was recorded as a widower and then it states 'former wife deceased in 1889'. It also then lists 2 children born to John from his previous marriage, and yet we have only been told of one child, a girl named Margaret. What happened to the other child has yet to be determined. John is recorded as being a Sawyer, age 27 and that his present address at the time of his marriage was Abbotsford, but that his usual address was Port Adelaide. His father John was noted as being a Labourer.
Marion is recorded as being born in Kaniere, Hokitika and her rank or profession is listed as 'lives at home'. her age was 23 years and her then present and usual address was listed as South Melbourne. her father was recorded as William Caldwell a Labourer and Marion Heasman The witness's to their wedding were Alexander McKinne? (the writing is poor, so that name may not be correct) and also Margaret Ann Reay.
   
The circumstances of Marion's burial are somewhat different, she died on the 29th December of 1945, and was buried in Thames, however later on there was a decision to remove her from there and place her with her husband in Maramarua. This was done on the 3rd August 1948. Actually the cemetery was on land that was originally part of the Nesbitt family farm. The previous owner of that farm land had given a small parcel of land to the local authority, to be used as a cemetery, so the Nesbitt farm boarded the cemetery.

Of course the above shows us that Marion and John henry Nesbitt, after their marriage, and after giving birth to their 4 children, left Australia and went to New Zealand, as this is where they both died. This is also where 2 of their three adult children ( remember, one of their children died as a young child) married, and their families are still in New Zealand, but one of their sons, Ernest Robert Nesbitt left New Zealand and went back to live in Australia, namely Sydney, and those descendants are still in the Sydney area, in fact it was  his son who I originally made contact with, with the ''good luck'' story as above.

Aumarire.

[annecaroline]

Hi Everyone

Loved your Nesbitt story Aumarire -what are the odds of that happening?

This story has more twists and turns than I ever believed possible.

I am working on yet another twist this time with the missing Amelia.Should have a result for you all later today.

Annie

[Lucy2]

Hi All     

Many thanks "aumarire" for the wealth of information provided on CALDWELL.    Just needed to know when Mary Ann / Marian  was having her babies, and what else she was likely to have been "up to" during her time near Hokitika.     (A wee "surprise" for you, follows (next post)) 

An amazing story of your good fortune with Nesbitt research - thanks for sharing it with us     

Cheers
Lu

 
 

[Lucy2]

 

SEPTEMBER  1868   Westland NZ



"District Court at Westland"

15 September 1868

Marian BALLI   and   Annie HEASMAN

      file for BANKRUPTCY      !!               


[More shortly ... ]


PS :   Sorry, a glitch prevented me posting a link to this.

   http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/

PapersPast  - "West Coast Times" - 15 September 1868
- page 3 Advertisements - column 3 :

AND  ... (same newspaper) - 15 August 1868 -

"List of letters received during the month of April, 1868, and
remaining unclaimed on 31 July, 1868"

   ~   BALLI - Mrs Marion    :
                   
                                  ____________

THE BANKRUPTCY :   Unfortunately there was no further information to be had on this .     

Perhaps this is an explanation ?

The "West Coast Times" on 1 October 1868 - reported ...

"Sittings of the Westland District Court in its criminal jurisdiction and also Bankruptcy, have been held during the month (of September), but the cases disposed of, were of no public interest".
 

[annecaroline]

Hi Everyone

Good news -the husband of Amelia Heasman -James Bradley has been found dying in 1899 in NSW.
Only thing is his wife is no longer Amelia.
It is the right James Bradley has the same parents as per his marriage cert to Amelia.Has the same children etc from his 1st marriage.
But he has remarried in NSW in 1885 and started a new family.
No mention of  the marriage to Amelia.
So what become of Amelia?

Annie