Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please

[coffeecup]

Hi Paul, anything that turns up will be greatly appreciated.

It seems this family lived between 1841 and 1881 at Vron Llantysilio.

I think the census is missing for this part of Llantysilio 1861. Various sources are not recognising Vron. Sure there should be more pages, only 6 found. No Cymmo either, can't find it in GENUKI to understand it, (I'm bleary eyed though) It's stated on the census as a parish, but not in the listings, any wonder I'm still soooo confused about this? 

It's Zechariah Lloyd 1859 who's number one on the wanted list, being in my grandma's living memory. I'm assuming at this stage that is his mother is Mariam abt 1823-7, brother Emmanuel 1853, sister Margaret Ann Holmes 1868 and step father John Holmes (missing). Mariam's mother is Margaret abt 1785 Bettws Ruthin? father Mr (unknown) and Margaret's mother is Ann abt 1762? widow to Mr (unknown) Lloyd. Wow, never had anyone born that early on a census before!

Did that make sense?

[Gadget]

Hello,
Where's the next best if there's nothing in Llantysilio, Gadget?

I think I might have looked for this one before, the name John Holmes sounds familiar

Paul.

Hi Paul

I would think the younger ones are Llantysilio.

Betws is the only location so far identified other than Llantysilio - but which one    If not then adjacent parishes to Llantysilio are Llangollen, Corwen Bryneglwys, Llandegla and Minera.

Gadget

[Rachel Bowen]

I don't know any of the family, but to help your searches, this might be useful.
Emmanuel was often shortened, not just to Manuel, but to 'Manny' - as in Manny Shinwell, and I knew a Manny Williams in Ruabon.

Also don't confuse the various "Llantisilio"s. Any which are sometimes called "yn Ial" are not the same ones as any in Denbighshire. "Yn Ial" means in Yale, and despite the Yale connection of Wrexham, are in Flintshire.
The Yale of Wrexham is the Family - Elihu, buried in Wrexham parish churchyard, after whom Yale University is named.
"Ial" is an area of what was Flintshire.
Rachel

[Gadget]

I have to disagree with you there, Rachel.

The family are definitely in the Llantysilio near Llangollen. Genuki, which I have referred Steph to earlier on the thread quite clearly states:

A parish in the Union of Corwen, hundred of Yale, county of Denbigh; 2 miles (NW by W) from Llangollen, containing 842 inhabitants. ..... It is pleasantly situated on the river Dee, which forms its southern boundary, and is skirted on the north by the small river Merenion; on the west it is bounded by the parish of Corwen; and on the east by a small river running through the Vale of Crucis. The surface is boldy undulated, and in some parts mountainous; the soil, though various, is in general fertile, and the surrounding scenery is strikingly diversified, and in many parts beautifully picturesque. A chain of mountains of romantic appearance and rich in mineral wealth runs through the centre of the parish, which is also intersected by the turnpike road leading from Llangollen to Ruthin."
[A Topographical Dictionary of Wales, 1833 & 1849, Samuel Lewis]

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llantysilio/index.html

These Genuki pages were prepared by Vic Roberts a very knowledgeable member of the Clwyd Family History Society who knows far more about our area than any of us.

It is the only Parish  in Denbighshire called Llantysilio (Llandysilio, Llantysilio yn Ial) and they are clearly there - see the info from the censuses.

Reference to Flintshire will only confuse things.

Regards

Gadget

[Paul]

Hi, all the Lloyd baptisms I could see in Llantysilio 1819-1900
Children of William and Gwen.
Jan 3 1819. William.
Aug 12 1821. Ann.
Nov 14 1824 Robert.
March 10 1827. Mary.
April 10 1831. John Thomas.

Thomas and Sarah.
Nov 12 1825. John.
Sep6 1829. Henry.
Oct 2 1831. Thomas.

Oct 4 1832. Ann IllegitimateD/O Edward Roberts and Grace Lloyd.

June 22 1851. Anne.D/O Morris and Ruth.

July 19 1873 Margaret Jane D/O Hannah and John.

April24 1898. Edward Evan. Illegitimate S/O Mary Jane.

Aug 26 1900. Walter Henry S/O Robert Henry and Emily Sophia.

July 10 1864 Margaret Ann D/O Miriam.

Llangollen baptism.
Born May 4 1892. baptised Aug 16 1893. John William. Illegitimate S/O Margaret Ann Holmes. 5 Brook St, Penllyn, Llangollen.

I'll check if this marriage is Llandegla or Ruthin ( I had both index's out at the same time)
June 4 1866.
John Holmes. full age. bachelor. Hawker. Pont??ygt?. Father, William. Deceased.
Miriam Lloyd(X). Spinster. Llandegla. Father, John. Deceased.
Witnesses.  J G Humphries and ???Owen.

Llandegla burial. John Lloyd  Dec 30 1852. Age 38 years.

Paul

[Gadget]

Paul

 

Lots there for Steph to work through. You're pretty good - or have I told you that before 

Gadget

Added -

I'll check if this marriage is Llandegla or Ruthin ( I had both index's out at the same time)
June 4 1866.
John Holmes. full age. bachelor. Hawker. Pont??ygt?. Father, William. Deceased.
Miriam Lloyd(X). Spinster. Llandegla. Father, John. Deceased.

It's down as Ruthin on the GRO Index

Just wondering if they just registered the Zach and Emmanuel births but not baptised  - or maybe Llangollen/Llandegla

[J.J.]

Hi, C.C.  I see everyone has been busy solving your puzzle...
Sorry I missed the Miriam in the next household... I looked, you know....
brain elsewhere as I said....   Now that you know Miriam was a Spinster, the Robert's lad isn't likely a huge concern anymore...and likely will get pieced together somewhere else...have fun sorting out all your new info... J.J.

[coffeecup]

I wasn't expecting a look up within 24 hours! You're a generous bunch on this board! Paul that's really helpful. Thank you so very much 

Interesting stuff indeed!

First mystery then, Margaret Ann was not John Holmes's daughter. She was a few years younger than previously recorded.

How interesting that she took his name then in later years. Must have regarded him as 'dad'. Or decided to create a name for herself where one was lacking. Wonder where he got to in 1871 then? Died or off out in the streets of Llangollen hawking of all thngs!

So Miriam's father was John Lloyd? Margaret a daughter in law then. Somewhere out there is a marriage of John Lloyd to Margaret (yet to be known).

Llandegla. Must look that one up and find out.

Thanks so much, the pieces little by little will fit together. What lovely friendly helpful people you are here!

PS that's £7 you have just saved me there with that marriage look-up to learn all that. My Lloyd ancestors were paupers remember.........(say no more)

[wrjones]

I found a John Holmes given as born in Hereford in c 1842 Hawker,a Lodger in Monmouth Monmouthshire in 1861.
RG9/3988/4/4.
I also found a Birth in the Hereford District in 1840,GRO Reference;Volume 26,Page 181.I found no sign of him though in 1841 or 1851.

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.