Thomas Graham

[Rowanjay]

I have hit a brick wall with my Graham links and can't move on until I can get a possitive ID.

I am looking for Thomas Graham born (according to census) Irthingtonn Cumbria around 1823?

wife Elizabeth (?) born Renwick c 1832

There are at least 10 possible IDs for Thomas
and as many marriages so I can't order any certificates with asny accuracy... hence the problem

According to the census records Tom and Liz had two sons: John and George

I have IDd my gr-grandfather as John Graham, born Haltwhistle (or nr) c 1860 but there are three possible  birth certs but without knowing his mother's maiden name I can't be sure which  he is.

John married Alice Geddes (Gaddes)
John's brother was  George born c 1868

John's father according to his marriage cert was

Does anyone have a link for Thomas or John that I can go with?

(sigh) If only they had less work-a-day names :-)

[bobgraham]

My lot are grahams and 2 lots of smiths - and you think you've got troubles!
 :>} My wife on the other hand is an altass - dead easy back to 1500.
2 things - does any of the info you have contain occupation to help cut down possibilities? and do you need mothers surname to cut down possibilities?
You can send for certificates and specify both occupation and mothers forename and if they don't match, you pay only for search and not certificate. I had a lot of trouble with GGF cos he was known on death, marriage and childrens birth certs as Henry but his (illiterate) mother had registered him as James Henry. The James never appears again.
Best of luck
bob

[sillgen]

You can also write to the local register office about the certificates and they usually don't charge to tell you whether you have the right one or not if you give them enough information.
What about church records?    They often give extra information too.
Andrea

[Rowanjay]

Hi Bob and Andrea

replying to both at once

Yes, I both wrote to and rang the Carlisle reg office - and  got the same answer...

There are several possibilities but none that they could say were absolute certs.

Too many Tom Grahams it seems :-) 

I don't have a maiden name for Tom's wife, just her first name - Elizabeth - and the BMD records show between 8 & 12 Elizabeths married to Thomas Grahams in Cumberland depending on how wide an expected time frame I use.

Conversely the IGI records don't show any real contenders. 

Given that Liz was quite possibly under age when she wed (depending on which Liz I choose) I suppose its always possible that Tom and Liz never married at all... (quelle scandal !!  )

Elizabeth's age does differ with each census record (she's a year or two  'younger' every time!!)   so that possibility is not as off the wall as it sounds.

And yes, I have applied for Tom an Lizzie's son, John's, birth cert  - almost three weeks ago, but have not had it back as yet...  and now we have a post strike who knows when it will turn up (or if)


 I seem to get thwarted at every turn - so maybe Tom really does not want to be found :-)

I have been looking for quite a while - and sort of finding a living relative in Haltwhistle who can confirm some basic facts I have come to the conclusion that it is all guess work - and not even educated guesses - its real leap in the dark stuff...

 

but thank you both for posting replies.

It helps just to have a good old moan about these elusive links 

[Rowanjay]

on Grahams and Smiths...

my Mother's family name is Edwards... from Wales! Its not unlike havins English Smiths... trust me :-)  good thing there was that an uncle had done some research a few years back and so I had a start point.

My other half is a Colbourne - a name with at least 11 differing spellings - all of which they have used at some point :-)  but gthere again I struck gold because some lovely person had actually published  a 'single Name' book on them so I have traced them back to 1634.  Cheating I know, but at least I can now concentrate on the spouse's lines

have fun

R

[bobgraham]

I've posted this somewhere before but I think it bears repeating. IGI tends to peter out after 1837 when FreeBMD comes into it's own.]
bob

[sillgen]

The Irthington records should be on the IGI up to 1871 but it is always worth getting the film of the parish records to search at your nearest LDS centre if you have not already done so.
Bobgraham - there are many IGI records after 1837 but what we have to bear in mind is that they are records of the LDS church and record the temple sealings.  They are not there to be a full record of church registers.  They are incredibly useful for us but not meant to be a full record of church registers.  They do not cover all registers by any means and we must always bear in mind that the nearby parish may not be on there and must therefore be searched at the local record office or indeed, occasionally, at the church itself.
As a very long shot it may be worth writing to everyone of that name in the Cumbria phone book.   You just might strike lucky but I should look at the church records first.  Start with Haltwhistle if you are sure that is your ancestor.
Andrea

[Rowanjay]

yes, I did think of that a few years  back - and I did write to a dozen or more Grahams from the phone book in and around Haltwhistle explaining who I was  and who I was trying to trace  (and yes, I  included return postage). I did not get a single reply.

Believe me when I say I have been on this trail for quite a long while

And I always hit that wall at every turn - its getting to be somewhat depressing  

But I still have a little go now and then by putting the info onmessage boards -just  to see if there is anyone out there with a family link.

I lived closer to the area it might help as I could do more foot work. 

However, its at least a  five hour drive just getting to Haltwhistle from here so unless I have a totally genealogy based holiday up there its not really a viable option right now.

Maybe when I retire...

but thanks anyway

[sillgen]

I see your problem!     After some time I did eventually find Alice Graham, a widow, living with her brother James Geddes in Haltwhistle in 1891.  She has Fred, Blanche and Thomas with her.  That led me back to John's family.   The 1861 census is quite helpful as it states he is 8 months old.  That census was taken on 8th March so you can pin his birth date down quite accurately.  If you write to the local register office for Featherstone/Haltwhistle, saying they are living in Redpath in 1861 and assuming the birth was in the same area, quote the parents and Thomas' occupation I would think you have a fair chance of finding the right birth certificate.
Local offices are much more helpful than the GRO.   They are listed on genuki if you do not know it.    I don't think it will be Carlisle but might be wrong on that. 
As for all the possible Thomas Grahams....   Not sure what to suggest.  Some families are affluent and will have left wills.  Church registers are probably the best bet.
There is quite an age gap between Thomas and Elizabeth.   It did occur to me that it might be his second marriage.    Again, it is likely to be shortly before (or after) John's birth so the local office may help there too.
Andrea