Author Topic: Save our Churches !!!!!  (Read 16372 times)

Offline suzard

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Re: SAVE OUR CHURCHES!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 27 September 07 11:11 BST (UK) »

"If they were community run projects, the money could be raised from activities held there (exercise classes, coffee mornings, tea dances, party hire, play groups, "

many of our local churches have to boost their income by holding classes., play groups, party hire etc and these classes are very often run by volunteers, so i don't think a place could be sustained by these activities alone

The churches /chapels in the locality of my youth have all except one had a change of use - one is a light fitting warehouse (for past 20 years) one has been demolished and a tyre fitting place built on the site (30+ years ago)-one is now residential accomodation (10years) and a beautiful old village church close to me was demolished 30 years ago and a modern hall built in its place, which is still used for worshipping, but also as the village school hall, and is available for hire-the floor is marked out as a badminton court!

On the other hand, there is a village quite close to me where the church "own" most of the village - the church is still thriving, it has bought the local post office and general store (which is run by church members), has its own nursery, alms houses, and several houses in the village.

Suz




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Offline Lydart

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Re: SAVE OUR CHURCHES!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 27 September 07 12:34 BST (UK) »
It is always sad to see churches closed.  But being realistic, it can cost (heating, insurance, maintainence) many thousands per year to even keep the smallest village church open.  Our local church is a mile out of the village centre (the village moved from around it at the time of the black death !).  So although it is used and well attended for marriages and funerals, it is sparsely attended on Sundays by the 'faithful' ... who are getting older.  If we are practicing Christians, we should in theory tithe a percentage of our annual income to the church ... I think 5% is the suggested amount.   But 5% of the pension of OAP's who still attend isn't enough to pay the tens of thousands a church has to find every year; hence all those coffee mornings, church fete's etc.  The clergy aren't paid out of what is put in the plate on a Sunday ... they receive a stipend from the Diocese, and for that, have to minister in several churches in widely separated parishes.  (I am talking country parishes here).  Where do the dioceses get the money to pay the clergy ?  Each parish has to pay a 'parish share' into the coffers .... so add that to the insurance, heating, repair costs ! 

So when you visit a well-known cathedral, don't be aghast when you see the notices about how much it costs to keep the place open to the public ... dig deep into your pockets, and pay up !   Small rural churches are quite a different kettle of fish.  Many have to be kept locked (very sad) but if they are open when you visit to find your ancestors graves, then be generous and put money made of paper into the box on the wall ... a few pennies are just an insult to the unseen faithful who clean the church, do the flowers, cut the grass ...

When it comes to using churches for other purposes, yes, this is an excellent idea in towns ... I cite All Saints in Hereford as a good example of multi-useage .... they have converted a side chapel into an exhibition room for hire by outside persons; there is a vegetarian cafe (run as a business by others) at the back of the church; there are loo's ... and the main body of the church is still in use as a worship space.     But this sort of thing can't be financed by the average small parish .... the cafe at All Saints was the turning point for that church, in that the church benefits from the rent. 

So its a good idea for churches to be multi-purpose these days ... and even multi-faith ... but don't forget that like most things these days, it all comes down to MONEY ! 

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Offline nanny jan

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Re: SAVE OUR CHURCHES!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 27 September 07 12:41 BST (UK) »
Son number one  lives in a converted church in Scotland; no graveyard around it though.  His is the third family to live there and 2 beautiful stained glass windows are still there for all to enjoy.

Nanny Jan
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Offline meles

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Re: SAVE OUR CHURCHES!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 27 September 07 12:42 BST (UK) »
Some friends in Holland go to a church where the congregation voted to demolish it and build flats for the elderly and vulnerable others. They built a new church, meeting rooms, cafe etc adjacent. They all share a communal garden. It was a very succesful project, and boosted the congregation.

meles

 
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Offline Lydart

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Re: SAVE OUR CHURCHES!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 27 September 07 12:53 BST (UK) »
One problem Meles, is that many, many old country churches, and quite a lot of the town ones, are Grade 1 or Grade 2 listed buildings, so can't be demolished, or altered ....

Listing can be a double edged sword ... preserving ancient buildings, but also preventing any sort of alterations for modern useage.  All Saints in Hereford managed it with the cafe, by building it as a sort of separate building inside the church, complete with extra seating upstairs .... nothing attached to the ancient walls ! 

Anyone going near Hereford ... GO AND SEE IT !   The food is excellent (and no, I'm not a share-holder !)
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
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Offline Elliebob

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Re: SAVE OUR CHURCHES!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 27 September 07 13:24 BST (UK) »
Thank you Lydart for summing up so well what I would like to say.  The cost of maintaining the services and fabric of a  grade 1 listed building are huge for a small congregation.  Church of England congregations (as the Established Church) pay to keep the church open for everyone to have the right to use them.

I am a churchwarden of our parish (population 500) church and we are currently altering all the seating to make the building more suitable for community use inclucing the village school to have a place for PE, drama etc.  We need to make sure that we retain the prime purpose of the church for worship.

As a church council we are determined that our building should be open during each day so that those who wish can use it for private or learn about their forbears!

Ellen
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Offline stanmapstone

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Re: SAVE OUR CHURCHES!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 27 September 07 14:30 BST (UK) »
If suitable alternative uses cannot be found, the remaining outcomes are either preservation or demolition.
Lists (by diocese) of redundant church buildings whose futures have been settled as at April 2006 See Redundant Churches Division
http://www.cofe.anglican.org/about/churchcommissioners/redchurches
Stan
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Offline toni*

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Re: SAVE OUR CHURCHES!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 27 September 07 16:47 BST (UK) »
Son number one  lives in a converted church in Scotland; no graveyard around it though.  His is the third family to live there and 2 beautiful stained glass windows are still there for all to enjoy.

Nanny Jan

does he get anyone knocking on his door asking to see where his relatives were married etc?
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Offline AnneMc

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Re: Save our Churches !!!!!
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 27 September 07 18:26 BST (UK) »
In our small town the local Anglican and United Churches decided to combine churches as it was not affordable for them to each keep their church... So the United church sold their building and it was turned into a furniture store but they kept the building instead of knocking it down and the Anglican church knocked down their old wooden church and the two churches build a really nice church. Which they both use, one week the service is the Anglican service and the next week it is the United service... Must say it is working out great..

Cheers
Anne
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