Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses

[Vicwinann]

Hello Jan,
The censuses put David and Elizabeth as follows:-
1881 Address: Waterloo Place, Newbury
1891 Address: The Vine Inn, Pembroke Road, Newbury
1901 Address: 40, North Brook Street, Newbury
1911 Address:  Rose and Crown Northcroft Lane Newbury
Vicwinann

[janjim]

Hi Vicwinann,
Thank you so much, Newbury Chap may have more information to provide on the years that
they were Licensees of those two Inns.

Jan

[newburychap]

David Wheeler was landlord of the Grapes and the Rose & Crown.

For some reason the Grapes was given as the Vine in 1891 - whereas the 'real' Vine was being run by John Gibbs in 1891 - until John Wheeler took it on in 1892.

The Grapes (1891 is the only time I have found it under any other name) was a backstreet beerhouse in what became Pembroke Road but earlier was Red Lion Yard or Rose & Thistle Yard (the name changing with the pub at the Northbrook St entrance to the yard). David Wheeler was there from Sep 1887 to December 1898 when he moved on to the Rose & Crown.  The Grapes was closed by the licensing magistrates in 1912.

The Rose & Crown was a better option, but still a back street pub. It was, however, a proper pub, fully licensed and had been around for at least a couple of hundred years before David Wheeler arrived in 1898.  It also outlasted the Grapes, lasting until 1971 - there are still people around who remember it and mutter about the developers who knocked it down almost overnight as moves were afoot to get it protected by getting it listed.

I don't have the precise information as to when David Wheeler left the pub - but it was somewhen between 1913 and 1914.

It was intrigued to see he was at 40 Northbrook St in 1901 - as that was also a pub for many years (until ca1860), however I have him at the Rose & Crown in 1901 (RG13/1120/30 - Painter & Paperlayer & Publican) - the multiple occupations is typical of the landlord of pubs like the Grapes and Rose & Crown.

The most interesting thing to me is the Townsend in his name. The main Elizabeth Wheeler that has cropped up during my research was the daughter of John Townsend, and seems to have taken over management of his brewery when he died (1790s). Presumably David was a descendent - 100 years is a long time but to see the family go from running one of the two biggest breweries in the area to running a back street beerhouse is, dare I say it, sobering.  I hadn't made this connection before (Wheeler is a common enough name). He was running a pub (Rose & Crown) owned by a distant cousin as the Somerset family who were running what had by this become the Newbury Brewery Co, were also related in some way to the Townsends.

[janjim]

Hi Newbury Chap,
Thank you for all of this information. It is all so interesting with the connection of the New family to other Innkeepers  in the district.  Ellen New (sister to Charles New who had the London Apprentice Inn in the early 1900's) had the son Albert Leonard New, who married Fanny Elizabeth Townsend Wheeler (daughter of David Wheeler)    We believe that Fanny Wheeler died in 1914 at the Cholsey Lunatic Asylum.
Her husband Albert New was also a Painter by trade, so this connects up with the 1901 census
where David Wheeler was living at 4 Northbrook Street,  he being shown as being a Painter (multiple occupation).   Our Charles New was also a Bricklayer, as was my Grandfather Charles Edmund New, both licensees of the London Apprentice.  We believe they got their apprenticeships with Adeys of Reading,
I've still not been able to find any more information on the years that younger brother Walter New was the Licensee of the Swan Inn at Newtown, believed to be at some time in the early 1900's, despite various postings.  I do know that descendants of this family still live in Newbury.
Have just been looking at the Dead Pubs website once again, I see a Daniel New was the Licensee of the Coach & Horses in Cheap Street in 1840. (You may have mentioned this to me previously) Whether it was our Daniel New or not, am not sure, maybe you might have more information on this person.   Our Daniel married Lucy Wootton, they came from Ashbury originally, married in Reading, found them in 1841 census in Newbury, he was a Draper living in Wash Road, so may not be the same family as shown in the Licensee records.

Another question, if you don't mind me asking, we have another New family member that married William George Bosley.  Yes we know that he took over the licence of the London Apprentice after my grandparents migrated to Australia.   Somewhere along the line, we believe that one of the Bosley family members was Licensee of the Cock Inn in Shaw Road.  Wonder if you have more details of this licence.

Jan

[newburychap]

It's a convoluted family tree full of licensees. 

The first thing I need to clear up - you refer to David and Elizabeth - the licensee's wife was Fanny or Fanny E(lizabeth?) according to censues.  If it is this Fanny who is committed to the Asylum it could explain why they left the Rose & Crown when they did.  A quick look at the GRO indexes suggests that David died in 1917, is this the right guy?

The licensee of the Cock was George Bosley (1889 - 1895).

Another Bosley, Joseph, kept the Jolly Millers (London Road) and Robin Hood around the same period.

[janjim]

Hi Newbury Chap,
Sorry about that, yes, David was married to Fanny Elizabeth (nee Hall), they married in 1878 at Newbury.   No, it was their daughter Fanny Wheeler who married Albert Leonard New the Painter who died at Cholsey, Wallingford in 1914 when she was 38 years of age.  Yes and it looks like her Father, David Townsend Wheeler died in 1917 at Newbury aged 61 years.

Thanks for that information on George Bosley, looks like our William George Bosley's Father.

Did you manage to find any more information on Daniel New as being the Licensee of the Coach & Horses Inn?

Have been looking at a couple of new books available for Newbury,, one called "Newbury Road by Road " by R.B. Tubb, do you recommend this as being a good asset for us with the New family at all?   Just wondering how we go about getting a copy.  Don't think you can buy on line.

Jan

[PaulC120]

Hi janjim

not sure if you already have this,

Ex-OFHS transcripts for Fair Mile Hospital, Cholsey,  Burials

30 Dec 1914 Fanny Elizabeth Townsend NEW, died Berks Asylum age 38

[janjim]

Hi Paul,
Yes, I did have the year, but nothing else, very much appreciate that, thank you.   Are you able to provide a copy of the transcript at all?

Regards
Jan

[newburychap]

Daniel New was landlord of the Coach & Horses 1839/40 - that's all I have.