What the Heck was the 189th Brigade?!

[atom12]

Hi Rich

Ref: your Gr Grandad being a Sergeant, he most probably was transferred to a War Raised unit to train and lead the new men, as presumably the majority would have no military experience.

There is the possibility that he was a pre-war Regular.  Or, a member of the Territorial Force.  Bearing in mind that your Grandfather was at the Duke of York's Military School, perhaps that might be a lead, in that they may well have your Grandfather's details (of admittance, family circumstances, et al.)  So, it might be worth persuing the school to see if they hold archive.

Great avatar Rich, of a smart looking, handsome gentleman.  Hope you continue your quest, and let us know how you get on. 

[atom12]

Have you seen Alfred's medal card and thought of downloading it:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01y6/

[alan w jones]

Hello Rich ,
I still think its a good idea to send off for part of diary you are after frm NA, you can order online . The ref you need is WO 95/2625  for 189 Brigade RFA. I have just received a page of an extract about a Captain getting wouned for just 70p, plus postage of course.
Regards
Alan

[rich23434565]

Hi 

Yes I have the medal card that I photocopied at the National Archives (which I assume is the same as the download?!). It just says Alfred Hayden RFA, Sgt, L/40834 Died 2.7.16 and Victory: RFA /336B 47396.

Maybe he didn't enlist in 1915 after all but at an earlier time. The last pre-war occupation I have for him is 1912 when he was working as a railway wagon repairer. I don't know how much time was needed for someone to get to sergeant or whether, out of pure desperation, they just threw people in at the deep end. If he arrived in France at the beginning of May 1916 then he only had two months there before he was killed.

Researching anything related to the First World War is unrelievedly horrific, isn't it?

As far as the Duke of York school is concerned, as I understand it from my grandmother (who's still alive), after Alfred Hayden was killed his mother put her youngest son (my grandfather) into an orphanage and kept the younger daughter. When she remarried after the war she had my grandfather back but, as he didn't get on with one of the stepchildren, he was sent to the Duke of York school and then enrolled with the RA.

Alan: Yes, I agree with you about the brigade diary being a good area for research. I wish I'd looked at it when I was at the NA over the summer but I just ran out of time! I'll check out the online ordering system and see how I get on. How do you know which pages you need to look at?

bws

Rich

Have you seen Alfred's medal card and thought of downloading it:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01y6/

[liverpool annie]

Rich !

There is a book called First Day on the Somme by Martin Middlebrook ... that I have found to be a good source of information .... maybe you could try the library !!

You might also try the Great War Forum ... there are some expert men on there that may be able to take you a little bit further .... !

Annie 

[rich23434565]

Thanks for the pointers, Annie    Much appreciated.

Rich !

There is a book called First Day on the Somme by Martin Middlebrook ... that I have found to be a good source of information .... maybe you could try the library !!

You might also try the Great War Forum ... there are some expert men on there that may be able to take you a little bit further .... !

Annie 

[atom12]

Hi Rich

It seems highly unlikely that your Gr Grandfather would become a Sergeant undertaking a responsible technical position within the space of a few months. Artillery men took a long while to train.  You obviously have more of his details than we can imagine, and you say that you have already been to TNA, Kew.  But, did lyou ook up any previous service for your Gr Grandfather, pre-WW1, even Boer War!  You might be able to judge whether he was likely to have served there by his age, or any other Census info you might be privy to.  I think another visit to Kew might prove worthwhile for you, and you could check out the war diaries whilst there.

Good luck
Anne

[rich23434565]

Just a little update: I've started the process of ordering copies of the relevant pages from the 189th Brigade's war diary from TNA. 

Many thanks to everyone who has helped contribute to this thread. 

[alan w jones]

Hello Rich,
Glad to hear it , good luck and keep us informed please .
Regards
Alan