CORNHILL in New South Wales

[trish251]

Hi Wendy & Sue

I did wonder why the father's name is not on the birth certificate and I also wondered if perhaps they waited until 1891 to marry, as his wife in England may still have been living. Then why would the WW record have the mother as next of kin if Joseph/James was definitely the father? Then, perhaps he didn't want to indicate that his father had a different name - being illegitimate was not looked well upon in the early part of the 20th century. I think you are correct that some transcripts may help - but not guaranteed.

Looking for immigration - I just remembered the site for NSW unassisted
The indexing has not yet covered most of the times that would be applicable
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/shipdate.htm
You can do some indexing to help or manually search lots of records at State records - or perhaps simply wait it out - If they came unassisted to NSW, they should be in here somewhere. A current search gives a James Cornhill 1866, M Cornhill crew 1859 and Mr Cornhill 1856.

I'm not sure if the UK records (findmypast) cover the 1880s - someone will no doubt know about that.

Trish

[Cazay]

We have a connection to the Rope family through Margaret Beahan who married George Rope in 1853.  George murdered his sister in law and was hanged in Mudgee gaol after helping to establish the new gallows.  How Ironic! and I have checked our contacts to see if there is any additional information for Joseph James Cornhill but so far have only found his marriage listed to Mary Ada Rope.

The Rope family have been extensively researched by a large number of people, mainly stemming from their convict connection of Anthony Rope and Elizabeth Pulley who both arrived as convicts with the First Fleet in 1788.

There are still a few more things that I haven't looked at yet so will post something if I come across it.

Cazay

[wdurham]

Hi, Trish & Sue -

The reason Joseph James wasn't Ernest's next of kin is that he died in 1909. 

The assumption that Joseph James was still in England in 1883 is not proven. The death of his little boy could have happened in Deal no matter where Joseph was. But I believe he and Wallace did go out to Australia together - they did everything else more or less together! - and Wallace was still fathering children in late 1882.

But I HAVE just made a breakthrough!

All previous searches for JJ's family post-1883 I did using Hannah's name and birthyear, birth place etc - and failed to find anything, even using just her first name. I should have tried spelling it wrong!

Because just now I tried it using just Agnes's first name and details. And lo and behold, there they are - Hanah, Joseph and Agnes.  In Herne Bay in 1891, living with Lewis Edward Golder as his wife and children:

Lewis Edward Golder    34
Hanah Golder    38
Joseph Golder    14
Agnes Golder    10
Jessie Golder    8
Ellen Golder    4

Jessie Cornhill was born qe Mar 1883  in Eastry.
Ellen Amelia Cornhill was born qe Mar 1887 in Medway.

There is no marriage for Lewis/Louis Edward Golder to a Hannah of any description.

I would suspect that the original assumption is probably correct - Jessie was probably the daughter of Joseph James, born in Eastry which covers Deal, where she and JJ had been living.  Which means JJ could not have left UK before mid-1882. Then there's a four year gap before Hannah has the next child, who is probably that of Lewis Golder, born in Medway which is quite a way up-county from Deal.

So what happened? Did JJ and Wallace go off to Australia promising to send for the family? Or did they just scarper?  Transportation was over by then, so that can't be the answer.

Clearly JJ didn't die in UK - not only is there no record for him, but also surely Hannah would have married Lewis Golder if JJ was dead?

So the balance of probability now is that JJ and Wallace left England some time in 1883 or 1884 bound for Australia. Wallace doesn't appear to have remarried - and died in 1902. There is no info on his listing in the death index, so whoever registered his death knew little about him. JJ struck up a relationship with Ada Mary Rope before 1886 and had two children with her before finally marrying her in 1891.  However, he did so bigamously, because his English wife was still alive and kicking in Herne Bay in 1901....

That COULD be the answer to the late marriage to Ada though - by then she was living as Hannah Golder, and he may have tried to trace her and failed, so presumed she was dead?

Yet another skeleton to add to my Cornhills - JJ's grandad appears to have abandoned two daughters in Berkshire as well!

PS Just seen the post from Cazay - thanks for looking! Anything you find would be most welcome...!

[trish251]

The reason Joseph James wasn't Ernest's next of kin is that he died in 1909. 

I have been known, many times, to miss the obvious! 

I also went looking at the census, thinking the family may have been deserted, but didn't find them, so a very good find and many of your assumptions seem to be proving correct - so nice when it work that way.

Perhaps he just waited the 7 years from when he arrived in Australia before remarrying - given the distances if he told the preacher/registrar he hadn't seen his wife for 7 years & assumed she was dead, it would probably be accepted - the marriage certificate could be interesting to see how he described himself - do let us know if you get a transcript.

I have researched so many family mysteries - turning up a number of ficticious stories told by the ancestors - I'm sure they never imagined that we would be able to check out these stories over 100 years later!

Trish

[Cazay]

Looked this up but forgot to post it...........

1903 NSW Electoral Roll
Joseph Cornhill, Occupation - Cook
Town:  Gummin Gummin
Division: Darling
Sub Div:  Box Ridge

This was the only Cornhill listing and I couldn't find Gummin Gummin but Box Ridge is near Coonamble, west of Tamworth and North from Dubbo.

Cazay   

[wdurham]

Hi, Cazay -

Thanks a lot for that! A Google reveals that Gummin Gummin's post town was Mundooran, some 212 miles West of Sydney, according to Greville's 1872 Post Office Directory.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hcastle/grevilles/lists/mno/mun.html


Looking at the list of people in the directory, it would seem that Gummin Gummin was a sheep station, rather than the name of a place - in fact all the locations listed look like farms or homesteads of some kind.

Google Maps places Mundooran to the north of Adelaide, so I guess it's not the right one - though it was the only one found. Still, 212 miles west of Sydney will do, and it's in the right area, as the mail route is "Rail Wallerawang, coach via Mudgee, or Wellington, 50m. Mundooran"

It might not necessarily be "my" Joseph, although he was the only one getting married or dying in NSW according to the BDMs, so it is highly likely.

Again, many thanks!

Wendy

[wdurham]

In the interests of closure and for the benefit of those kind souls who helped me, I now have the marriage certificate for Joseph James Cornhill and Ada Mary Rope.

It doesn't actually help much, as most key information has been left blank - no ages, birthplaces or parents are given for either of them.   

However, it does show that they were married in the residence of a Robert Price of Mudgee, by officiating minister Robert Allen, according to the rites of the Wesleyan Church. And it gives one key piece of information - the usual occupation of the groom was "Baker".

In the absence of any further likely source of information, that will have to do! Joseph James Cornhill of Whitstable WAS a baker, as were his father and his uncle, and his brother Wallace.

I did make contact with Colin Field, who has Ada Mary and Joseph James in his tree, with two of their three children, Susan and Ernest, listed as Cornhills, whilst the eldest, Lilla, is shown as Lilla Rope. He explained that the surname of Susan and Ernest had come from "family sources", which he had not questioned as the Cornhill connection was peripheral to his main family line.

I have searched every emigration/immigration record I can find, without success, including Findmypast - so I guess I have to settle for Joseph James Cornhill and Wallace emigrating to NSW sometime between 1893 and 1895.

Many thanks for all the help!

Wendy

[trish251]

Hi Wendy

Despite what is supposed to be on the certificates, apparently until the 1900s many NSW registrations lacked information. I do believe that this information was at times collected by the minister & is in the church records, which may be possible to track down. Some other Oz posters know much more about this than I do.

It does sound very much like your man - if he deserted his wife in England, perhaps he travelled under a different name? or perhaps the records have yet to be transcribed.

Trish

[Aussie Karrob]

G'day wdurham,

I would think you already have this.  However just in case, this should give you a good look at where Mendooran is in NSW.  It is not far from where I grew up at Narromine.  http://www.street-directory.com.au/sd_new/mapsearch.cgi

This link give a good description of where Gummin Gummin station (farm) is located.  http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A040096b.htm

Hope this helps
Robert