Author Topic: sad !  (Read 4750 times)

Offline CaroleW

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Re: sad !
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 11 September 07 18:17 BST (UK) »
At least one child of Robert & Margaret lived to produce children of her own - Mary Elizabeth Whittle was the daughter of Robert & Margaret

1861 census - all b Preston unless shown otherwise

1 Back St Pauls Square

Robert Whittle 30  can't decipher occupation
Margaret 34 b Longton
David   9 
John   7 
Mary Elizabeth    5 
Joseph  18 Months 
Edward Gillibrand 14 lodger b Lancs but can't decipher area
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Offline old boy

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Re: sad !
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 11 September 07 18:32 BST (UK) »
Carole as i have said before you totally amaze me with how quick u can do this

Cheers Steve
Moss, Moon, Singleton, Whittle, Chorlton, Gloag ,Morris all Lancs and beyond

Offline CaroleW

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Re: sad !
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 11 September 07 22:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Steve

Just in case they do belong to you - might as well go the whole hog:

1871 for 1 Leeming St (Lodging House)

Margaret Whittle 44 widow - lodging house keeper b Longton
David 19
Mary E 16
Joseph 11
Richard 9
Ann 2


In 1881 just Margaret and daughter Ann are at 51 Leeming St - shown as a lodging house and shop keeper

1881 for   Cut Thorn Dilworth

John WHITTLE 27 b Preston    Flagger Slater
Margaret  31 b Longridge
William  7 b Longridge
Mary Elizabeth  5 b Longridge

No David at the moment
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline cbury

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Re: sad !
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 19 August 10 04:24 BST (UK) »
The Margaret Whittle that lived at Cut Thorn in 1881 was born Margaret Kenyon.  She was the sister of Alice Elizabeth Kenyon Norcross - my GGGM. 

Rest of the children from that family (obviously at least a few died in childhood)
DOB
1873 WHITTLE   William
1875 WHITTLE   Mary Elizabeth   
1877 WHITTLE   John   
1878 WHITTLE   George
1879 WHITTLE   George
1880 WHITTLE   Margaret Matilda
1881 WHITTLE   Martha Ann
1883 WHITTLE   Emily Alice
1884 WHITTLE   Richard
1885 WHITTLE   Agnes
1890 WHITTLE   John   


Offline garstonite

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Re: sad !
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 19 August 10 07:29 BST (UK) »
The IGI has the christeneings of the children (or some of them) and it also has some others:

All at St John, Preston
All have parents Robert and Margaret:

Joseph chr 10 May 1859

Joseph chr 6 JAn 1861

Richard chr 27 Oct 1861

Ralph chr 17 Dec 1861
I don`t want to throw the cat amongst the pigeons ,but
 Ralph Whittle b sep qtr 1861 is on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk and luckily enough Preston gives MMN ...and in this case it`s TINSLEY,may be a different Ralph Whittle....allan ???
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline garstonite

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Re: sad !
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 19 August 10 08:03 BST (UK) »
I think you have to proceed very carefully...it looks like there are TWO Whittle /Wilding marriages...all on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk   births 
1850 John Whittle   MMN   Wilding
1850 William Whittle MMN Wilding
1850 William Whittle  MMN Wilding
3 different registrations
     
1852 David Whittle MMN Wilding
1852 Ellen Whittle MMN Wilding  ...not twins

1854 John Whittle MMN Wilding
1856 Mary ElizabethWhittle MMN Wilding
1859 Joseph Whittle MMN Wilding
1861 Richard mmn Wilding
1864 Margaret mmn Wilding
1866 Ellen Ann  mmn Wilding
1867 Ellen MMN Wilding
Robert MMN Wilding .....THEY ARE  twins
1869 Ann MMN Wilding
No Ralph ??
allan
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline TimW

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Re: sad !
« Reply #15 on: Monday 23 August 10 17:16 BST (UK) »
I think I can add a bit more to this.   I'm a keen researcher of my own surname and I believe that the Margaret Wilding mentioned in this thread is a first cousin, four times removed.

Garstonite is right about another marriage complicating things.   Richard Whittle married Ellen Wilding on 6 Feb 1837 at Preston St John.   Being early in 1837 this marriage doesn't appear on LancsBMD.   Ellen is not a relation of mine AFAIAA, but using LancsBMD and census returns I believe the marriage produced at least the following children :-

Jane b 1840
William b 1843
William b 1845
Richard b 1847
William b 1850
Ellen b 1852

The first two Williams died early, but the others survived infancy.

I think that Robert and Margaret had a total of 11 children, so the original poster's concern about the parents might be alleviated somewhat.   The ones who survived childhood and who are therefore not mentioned on the MI are

David b 1852
John b 1854
Mary Elizabeth b 1856
Richard b 1861
Ann b 1869

But there are still some loose ends that I can't explain :-

1)  The baptism record on IGI (which is extracted, not submitted) states that Mary Elizabeth Whittle died in 1858.   Census returns suggest that this wasn't the case, and there are no matching death records on LancsBMD or FreeBMD.

2)  There are two William Whittles with a mother's maiden name of Wilding in 1850.   I can only explain one of them.   Registered twice ?

3)  IGI shows a Joseph Whittle baptised in 1861, son of Robert Whittle and Margaret.   Was this a re-baptism of the 1859 child, who survived until the age of 15?

AND FINALLY,  I'd love to see the full detail of the MI mentioned by the original poster.   If he/she or anyone else has this could they please let me know.

Tim Wilding