Author Topic: BRANT ?Wooten Wawen to Kings Norton  (Read 9333 times)

Offline Yegvard

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BRANT ?Wooten Wawen to Kings Norton
« on: Tuesday 11 September 07 11:44 BST (UK) »
Hi Folks,

I'm trying to establish if there is a link for BRANT between those of Wooten Wawen and those of Kings Norton, Worcestershire.

The info I have is a William BRANT was born around 1771, not sure where, but was buried in Kings Norton, WOR.  And a Samuel BRANT born around 1765 who married a Martha ARNOLD, of Wooten Wawen.

Any information at all would be useful.

Cheers

Mike
HANDS, HANDES, HANNS, HANNES, HANNE, HANNON (Yardley to Bromsgrove)
 MIL(L)WARD, COTTERIL, CLULEE, IZOD, HASSALL, TODD, STRATTON, JAKEMAN, JENNINGS, MOLE, ALLCOCK PINFIELD north Worcestershire
WATERS, Thurzo, Sutherland> Bishopswearmouth, Durham
GARDNER, Solihull;
HUMPHRIES & HUMPHREYS, Meifod, Montgomeryshire>Bilston, STS> Manchester & Texas + Kansas, USA
JAKENS, BIRD, CRAPPER Bury, HIGGINBOTHAM, HORRIDGE, CUNDIFF, Lancs
LEO, Galway/Tipperary, & CARROLL, Carlow Ireland

Offline jim1

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Re: BRANT ?Wooten Wawen to Kings Norton
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 12 September 07 11:11 BST (UK) »
According to the NBI there is no William Brant buried in King's Norton (St.Nicholas).In fact there are only 2 Brants buried there altogether so it doesn't seem like this is where the family came from.The only Brant in Wootten Wawen was Samuel d.1824 aged 83.What is your source info?
Could the name have been Brand originally?
Jim
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Yegvard

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Re: BRANT ?Wooten Wawen to Kings Norton
« Reply #2 on: Friday 14 September 07 20:15 BST (UK) »
Hi Jim,

Thanks for replying.  The burial info was sent to me, but I suspect it was from the BMSGH transcription of either the burial register or the MI's.

May 2nd 1849, William BRANT 78 years
Jan 26th 1850 Anne BRANT aged 83 years.

There are numerous census records and a directory listing for the name.  So I'm happy that at least for the 19th century it was BRANT.

The marriage of Samuel and Martha was taken from the Wythall One Place Genealogical Study, which is usually very good.  There is also a young Martha BRANT in Kings Norton, born around 1823.

According to the IGI there was a John BRANT who married Anne SARSONS in 1774 in Wooten.

Hence me thinking that there could have been a link.

Cheers

Mike
HANDS, HANDES, HANNS, HANNES, HANNE, HANNON (Yardley to Bromsgrove)
 MIL(L)WARD, COTTERIL, CLULEE, IZOD, HASSALL, TODD, STRATTON, JAKEMAN, JENNINGS, MOLE, ALLCOCK PINFIELD north Worcestershire
WATERS, Thurzo, Sutherland> Bishopswearmouth, Durham
GARDNER, Solihull;
HUMPHRIES & HUMPHREYS, Meifod, Montgomeryshire>Bilston, STS> Manchester & Texas + Kansas, USA
JAKENS, BIRD, CRAPPER Bury, HIGGINBOTHAM, HORRIDGE, CUNDIFF, Lancs
LEO, Galway/Tipperary, & CARROLL, Carlow Ireland

Offline jim1

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Re: BRANT ?Wooten Wawen to Kings Norton
« Reply #3 on: Friday 14 September 07 23:44 BST (UK) »
If Samuel & Martha married in Wythall (not Wootten Wawen as you suggested) then they could be related.St.Nicholas's served Wythall & looking at the King's Norton BMD there are several references to Wythall in the Parish books.I'm still not convinced re. the Wootten Wawen connection.
Do you have any specific King's Norton/Wythall dates I can lookup.
Jim
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline Yegvard

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Re: BRANT ?Wooten Wawen to Kings Norton
« Reply #4 on: Monday 17 September 07 22:38 BST (UK) »
Jim,

The start of all this was a Martha BRANT marriage to Frederick CLULEE around 1841.  Anything on that marriage would be a bonus.  (Frederick's mum and dad were James and Mary.)  I suspect this marriage took place after the 1841 census, as there is a 18 year old Martha living with William (70) and Ann (75), born in WOR. see below.

In the 1841 there is a George BRANT, baker, in "The Village" not born in WOR.  (Just discovered, 1851 born Droitwich). Wife Charlotte, born in WOR, both aged "40".

Next door but one to my Benjamin HANDS in 1841 are 20 year old Solomon and Mary BRANT.  Both born in WOR.  Presumably married 1838 - 1840

Although described as in "The Village", in 1841, now it would be described as "Wharf Road", leading to the canal.  Isaac BRANT, 45, boatman, not born in WOR with wife Ann, 45, born in WOR.  (Just discovered: The 1851 has Isaac as being born in Kings Norton.)  So a marriage around 1815 -1821 would be a good beet.

Next door is William BRANT, coal dealer, born in WOR, see above. 

As you say, with the new 1851 info, Wooten Wawen, could be a red herring. (And George being born in Droitwich). 

Clearly the enumerator either didn't know his geography or very badly explained the census.  The registrar was Isaac CLULEE, Frederick's 1st cousin, builder of 2 churches, church warden and postmaster.

Any help would be appreciated.

Mike



HANDS, HANDES, HANNS, HANNES, HANNE, HANNON (Yardley to Bromsgrove)
 MIL(L)WARD, COTTERIL, CLULEE, IZOD, HASSALL, TODD, STRATTON, JAKEMAN, JENNINGS, MOLE, ALLCOCK PINFIELD north Worcestershire
WATERS, Thurzo, Sutherland> Bishopswearmouth, Durham
GARDNER, Solihull;
HUMPHRIES & HUMPHREYS, Meifod, Montgomeryshire>Bilston, STS> Manchester & Texas + Kansas, USA
JAKENS, BIRD, CRAPPER Bury, HIGGINBOTHAM, HORRIDGE, CUNDIFF, Lancs
LEO, Galway/Tipperary, & CARROLL, Carlow Ireland

Offline jim1

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Re: BRANT ?Wooten Wawen to Kings Norton
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 18 September 07 15:11 BST (UK) »
Is "The Village" you refer to King's Norton or somewhere else.
Is what you're looking for something like this:
Burial info.
William Brant 1849
Ann Brant 1850
Marriage info.
Samuel Brant = Martha Arnold date not given
Isaac Brant 1815-21
Birth info.
Martha Brant c.1823
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline FREWIN

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Re: BRANT ?Wooten Wawen to Kings Norton
« Reply #6 on: Friday 27 November 09 18:15 GMT (UK) »
Don't know if you're still out there, but I am Graham Brant, and William (b.1771) was my great-great-great=great grandfather. He is indeed buried in Kings Norton graveyard, I have a photograph of his gravestone. He moved to Kings Norton in the early 1800's from Beaudesert near Henley-in-Arden with his sons Isaac and George and his daughters Anne and Dinah. The Brants of Beaudesert go back to 1736 and are obviously connected with the Wooten Wawen Brants just down the road from Henley. A lot of the information in the censuses is wrong, particularly George coming from Droitwich !!   
I have researched the family in great depth and would be pleased to let you have any info I can. Cheers G.B.

Offline clulee

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Re: BRANT ?Wooten Wawen to Kings Norton
« Reply #7 on: Friday 27 November 09 21:44 GMT (UK) »
hello everyone
I am the great great niece of Martha Brant and Frederick Clulee (my x2Gt Uncle). Yegvard was asking on my behalf and it was me he probably got the info from regarding the gravestones. I visited there before they moved them in around 1988. Would love to know more about Martha Brants family.....

Please contact


Offline FREWIN

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Re: BRANT ?Wooten Wawen to Kings Norton
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 28 November 09 14:54 GMT (UK) »
Hi - Good to hear from you. As I am Martha's great-great nephew I suppose we are distant relatives. You may already know some of the following but here goes:
Martha was the daughter of Isaac Brant and Ann Rebecca Smith. She had 2 sisters Ann & Ruth and 4 brothers, Abraham, Saul, Michael and Solomon, who was my great-great grandfather. Solomon turns up in the Criminal Registers (1 month in chokey for assaulting a policeman - Naughty !)
Her father Isaac was one of four children brought to Kings Norton from Beaudesert in the early 1800's by their father William and his wife Ann. William and Ann's gravestone is one of the only 2 still extant in St. Nicholas' churchyard.
The Stratford canal had just been completed as far as Henley and William presumably used it to make the trip to Kings Norton where he became a coal dealer at the wharf in Wharf Lane, living at no.75 with Isaac who worked as a boatman. His other son George worked as a miller and shopkeeper and helped to run a beer garden by the canal. William's 2 daughters were both married in King Norton in 1830, 3 years after William was prosecuted for driving his coal cart without reins !
William was born in 1772 (not 1771) in Beaudesert, the son of Joseph Brant and Martha Johnson. Joseph (b.1743) was the son of William Brant who married Mary Hemming in 1736. The trail peters out there.
The Beaudesert Brants were simple folk, agricultural labourers and lime burners. One of them, Williams brother John, was the toll-gate keeper on the Stratford Rd in Shirley, less than a mile from where I now live. Apart from him William was the only Brant to achieve any sort of affluence, although while he was in Beaudesert he was at one time decribed as a pauper.
Martha therefore seems to have done well to pull Frederick Clulee, who looks to have become a successful builder ( I see that there is a Clulee Construction Co. still running ). One of the Clulee Clan, Benjamin, seems to have been briefly involved in the coal business down at the wharf after Martha's father Isaac died in 1865 and the lease on the coalyard expired.
I assume that you are descended from one of Fredericks siblings. There seem to have been no shortage of Clulees in Kings Norton judging by the list of monumental inscriptions for St Nicholas churchyard. I was interested by your reference to the moving of graves in 1988. I have been puzzled for some time that, although no less than 36 Brants have been interred there, only 2 graves are still  avilable for inspection. I know that grave are being re-used these days, with the original occupant being re-installed lower down, and I assumed that this is what had happened. It seems that you know better.
Another matter which has had me scratching my head is the preponderance of Jewish given names in the Brant family. Everything from Abraham, Solomon Isaac, Saul, Benniah and Boaz to Reuben, Rebecca and Dinah. Although Brant is an Ashkenazi Jewish surname, common in Poland, I cannot imagine how Jewish immigrant Brants would  end up in Beaudesert, although there are plenty of Brants down in Berkshire (Arborfield) with Jewish names. I notice a sprinkling of Isaacs and Benjamins amongst your forbears and wonder if you have any thoughts on this ...
Anyway, I hope I have shed some light on Martha's origins for you,( I can bore for England on this subject ). Nothing exciting, just a long line of straw-chewing yokels and horny-handed sons of the soil, like most people. I have come to realise. The Jewish question is intriguing though.
All of the details of the Beaudesert Brants were culled from a book by William Cooper called  Records of Beaudesert. There is a copy in Henley-in-Arden library if you want to take a look. There are also offshoots of Brants in Wooten Wawen, Preston Bagot, Ullenhall, Aston Cantlow and many other places in Worcestershire and Warwickshire, but life is too short .....
Let me know about the grave relocation thing, plus any thoughts on possible Jewish heritage.
Cheers- G.B.