Italian Immigrants from Stazzema (Tuscany) 1840's

[mazzie74]

I have discovered the town of origin of my Great-Great-Great Grandfather FERDINANDO ROBERTO MAZZEI who immigrated from Italy in 1845. He was a Plaster Figure Maker, and settled in Cardiff (via holborn and Bristol) where he died in 1904.

He was born in Stazzema, Lucca Province in 1819, and was the son of IACOPO MAZZEI (b.c.1788) and ROSA GUAZZELLI. (Iacopo was the son of PELLEGRINO MAZZEI).

2 other sons of Iacopo immigrated to the UK (PELLEGRINO MAZZEI (b.Stazzema 1811) and GIOVANNI MAZZEI b.Stazzema 1813)).

There was also an elder son of Iacopo called LUIGI MAZZEI who was born in Castiglione di Garfagnana, Lucca Province in approximately 1809. He stayed in Italy and moved to Pescaglia, Lucca Province. I have his Stato di Famiglia, but this does not help much.

I received the birth transcriptions of Ferdinando, Pellegrino (jr.) and Giovanni from the Archivio di Stato di Firenze (as Lucca had no info), but they seem to have grown tired of me asking for information and don't reply to me anymore.

I know that they probably won't have any information pre-1808 (I think but would like confirmation), but I was hoping to find out the names of the rest of Iacopo Mazzei's children, and also dates of death of Iacopo and Rosa etc.

If anybody can point me in the right direction as to how to find any further information (pre-1808 OR post 1808) I would love to hear from you,

Regards,

Darin.

[kathfen]

Did it cost much to get the information from Florence? I too am looking for my ancestors who may have come from Lucca - pre1800 - their name is Lazzari and they too were Plaster of Paris statuette makers, also ceiling covings and roses and picture frame makers (making wooden frames and covering them in Plaster of Paris and carving moulds and pressing the mould into the plaster) in the early 1800's.

The Paul Antonio Lazzari married in Manchester and settled in Newcastle upon Tyne where he had a Plaster of Paris business there untill 1840.

Do you know which port your family arrived at?

Best regards, Kath Fenwick

[mazzie74]

Hi,

Florence did not charge me anything to receive the transcriptions of the birth records.

However, It took me years and several e-mails to them before they sent me that information, as they claim that they do not perform searches themselves. They have stopped responding to me though for any further requests.

The problem that you will find is that as you are looking for information pre-1808 - Civil registration only began in parts of Lucca from about 1808, and Florence only houses this information.

For pre-1808 you need to revert to parish records, and these are held in the church of the town themselves. You may find, as I have, that many priests are unresponsive to requests for information, even if you make a little donation.

You may hit lucky though.

Another piece of information that I have is the Stato di Famiglia of the family Mazzei from Pescaglia, which mentions 3 generations, but these were only common after about 1870. If you think some of your ancestors were still in Lucca in 1870, you can write to the Comune of the town you think that they may have come from in Lucca (ie - I wrote to the "Comune di Pescaglia" to ask for the Stato di Famiglia).

I have the arrival document of my Great-Great-Great Grandfather (Ferdinando Mazzei) from 1845, and he arrived at Dover from Ostend. This only states Italy as his origin though. As do all his UK census records.

The only way I found the town of origin of my family was that, luckily I found on the "National Archives" (UK) website that one of my ancestors (Andrew Mazzei) had a "Naturalization Record" from 1926. I received that, and found that he was born in Havre, France in 1887, so I then wrote there, and received his birth certificate that stated his father was born in Pescaglia, Lucca in 1852. I then wrote to Pescaglia for the Stato di Famiglia and found that the family originated from Stazzema.

Good luck in your research, and don't lose hope as it took me about 8 years to find the town of origin of my ancestors.

Regards,

Darin, Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

[kathfen]

Hi Darren,   thank you for your quick reply. How do I find out the names of the churches in Lucca? I bet there are many, and if he came from a out-lying village just how many churches do I have to write to before I find him - oh dear - it all sounds a bit daunting doesn't it.

I cant believe how many similarities there are between our families especially as there are in Newcastle - by the way I live in Sunderland - you don't mind talking to a Macham do you?

Best regards,  Kath Fenwick  (at least I have a 'good old fashioned' Northumberland name0

[mazzie74]

Hi Kath,

I wouldn't suggest writing to churches as yet, as you could end up sending dozens without a reply.

As there is a Paul Lazzari who died in Newcastle in 1873 aged 59 - this would suggest that he was probably born in 1813 / 1814, presumably in Lucca?

What I would do is visit the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints at Sunderland, and ask them if you can order the following on microfilm:-

Nati Maschi L-M (A-Z) 1808-1817 Femmine L-M (A-Z) 1808-1817     
Film Roll No.  -  FHL INTL Film 1137513



This is the civil registration of births in Tuscany (male and female) from 1808-1817 - surname beginning with "L-M" (forename A-Z).

It will only cost you about £3 - and will take about a month or two to arrive.

He may be on there, but not certainly.
   
I have used the latter day saints in the past, and had found members of my family in the 1841 Tuscany census on microfilm. It is only open certain days of the week though.

Hope this helps,

Darin.

[kathfen]

Thanks Darin, I will contact the LDS - I have been there quite a lot of times. If I get the roll would it be of any use to you? if it is when it comes you could use it too!

The Paul you found, who died in1873 is the Paul Antonio Ladzrie's son & he was born in Newcastle. Paul A. was born in1775 in Italy. He is on the 1842 census in Buckingham St. Westgate, a publican and on the 1851 at Marley Hill, Gateshead. Paul is staying with his daughter Mary Black.

Paul and his brother Angelo had a Plaster of Paris business on High Bridge, Newcastle and they are in a Trades directory of 1838 were they made picture frames & fancy ceiling covings & roses. Paul could also carve Alabaster.

All the Ladzrie's and Lazzari's in and around Newcastle are related back to this Paul Antonio Ladzrie/Lazzari.

It's funny, when Paul and Angelo came to England their name was pronounced Ladzrie - Ladz ar ee and of course us Geordies spelt it the way it sounded. Now they have the right spelling Lazzari and pronouce it wrong as Lazz ar ee (like Jazz) it should still be pronounced Ladz ar ee as the sound of the first z gets changed like the way pizza does. Strange world - ehh.

Best regards,  Kath Fenwick

[mazzie74]

Hi Kath,

As Paul was born in Newcastle, it may not be much use using the microfilm, as it only begins at 1808.

It may only be use to find other Lazzari's and where the majority of the name seems to originate.

However, I think you will find that Lazzari is a very common name, and they will be spread all across Tuscany.

It is funny that you mention alabastor carving, as I have a photo of my Gt.-Gt-Gt- Grandfather from the 1870's and he is standing behind a piece of his work, and it looks more like it could be alabastor than plaster.

My surname (which was altered from Mazzei to Mazzie by my Gt. Grandfather in the early 1900's) has also dropped the "zz" sound as in pizza, and the "zz" sounds like the "zz" in jacuzzi.

Regards,

Darin.

[kathfen]

Hi Darin, I think I will still get the film because Angelo's wife died in 1814 & he remarried the year after then dissapears altogether. Did he go back home with his wife and son John? So I might pick up on him out there.

Thanks again,   Kathy

[mazzie74]

Hi again Kath,

Just a quick message to ask if it is possible could I please use the microfilm that you are using.

I think that I will attempt to locate other Mazzei sibling's from Stazzema.

Thank you for the offer,

Darin.