Tinker = Romany??

[Seaside Girl]

I'm trying to research my family history on my mothers side. My mum has always said that we have Romany links and there is some connection to a Queen of Gypsies. When I was younger if a Gypsy came to the door they would recognise her as she opened the door!  The only information I have is that my great grandmother, who was supposed to be Romany, was Annie Hadwin from Morecambe born July 1875. She was married to Charles Halsall, who apparently was a clown, though I can't find anything about him. They lived in Southport in 1900's onwards. In the 1930s they appeared to adopt or look after a William Healy Holland, born 1925 but I can't find where he originated from and that's another story!! Annie's parents were David Hadwin and Jane Smith (born in Kendal 1837) . They lived in Cheapside Morecambe in the 1870's. Jane Smith's parents were James Smith and Jane Wilson. James Smith was apparently an Ostler. There are obviously many Smith's but the only one that appears to link around Kendal was a James Smith in Milnthorpe who worked as an Ostler at The Cross Keys inn. There is also a Jane Wilson who's father could have been John Wilson, a clogger in Kendal. There is a link with the Smiths and the Bindloss family in Milnthorpe who were very wealthy and had numerous pack horses for their trade.
The odd thing is that my mum took a massive interest in horses when I was younger and my son desperately wanted to learn to ride when he was younger and is now having lessons in his 20s.
I would be so grateful if anyone recognises anyone from this information. Thank you

[Steve G]

Hadwin, Halsall, Holland, Hadwin, Smith, Wilson, Bindloss.

I would be so grateful if anyone recognises anyone from this information. Thank you

Hmm ..... Sue; The three names I've highlighted would stand out, like a smack in the mouth, to Anyone. But, they also, largely, happen to be among some pretty common names anyway  It's awkward.


So, I consulted The Book Of Bob ~ See the house under my avatar. Nope. As I thought. Nuffn.

Crazy bit though? 'Just because'; I ran a check on " Stacey " 1891 - 1909. Hampshire. 

That set the old Twilight Zone music going, in my head.

Personally though? I'd just concentrate on the usual, good old finger tip search, backwards. Don't be blinkered by focusing on what ye don't really know about. What ever will be will be. Genealogical detective work needs to remain a Science. There's no room for Art. Follow that paper trail 

Good luck.

(Ooh, look! I sounded just like 'Marko', in " Taken " there, look!)

[Ash Bradshaw]

Ah there's a few of us out there then . . .
My Gandads a Bradshaw ... I've found
Rowbottom
Hector 
Lott
Blackwell...

Any connection to the nomadic life styles of Roma or Navies. . . ?
Lost the thread in Wales some time around 1900 for Lott. . .
 
Received with thanks. . .

[Steve G]

Ah there's a few of us out there then . . .
My Gandads a Bradshaw ..... Any connection to the nomadic life styles of Roma or Navies. . . ?

 That's interesting, Ash. This thread just alerted me and, on seeing ye post, I just shrugged and reached for TBOB, again. I just do it by automatic response, these days 

I'll be blowed! Bradshaw is indeed listed! I never knew that before. But then, I'm not a walking encyclopaedia of names used by Gypsys, down the ages. I just happen to possess one 

But, yeah; " Bradshaw: 1771 - 1881 HUN, IRE, YKS. "

None of the other names are mentioned. But, there it is. Make of it what ye will.

[Tynedale]

The following may be of some help re the distinction between Romany and Tinker.
The Illustrated Gaelic Dictionary points out that the Irish Gaelic word ‘ceaird’ denoted a tradesman, mechanic, artificer, travelling tinsmith.
A worker in light metal, i.e. tin, was a ‘tin-ceaird ’ which has evolved into ‘tinker.’
 There are a number of theories as to the origin of the Tinsmith (tinkers).  Until not long ago they were referred to as "Tinkers" this word referred to their occupation as Tinsmiths and metal workers and was derived from the Irish word (Ceard) (Smith) or tinceard (tinsmith).
Because of the Irish origin, a tinker as such has no connection with Romany.

[Steve G]

A worker in light metal, i.e. tin, was a ‘tin-ceaird ’ which has evolved into ‘tinker.’

Excellent! Thanks, Tynedale. I love a bit of etymology and that's one I'd never even stopped to think too hard about before.

Good post 

[panished]

  I just think the er in tink.....er is just the same as when you say I write, it then can be said you are a writer, 

this is  just the way we use language, you can also say I have been tinkering about, that means doing something in a small  unstructured way, so now you have ing, as well as er, as in tink..er...ing, this is just the way we use add ons to shorten a longer sentence to portray our thoughts

[kassejayne]

Quite a few of my family have the dark skin and ebony eyes. my grandmother was a Roberts who's family came from Bethesda. she and some of her brothers and sisters were quite dark, my granddad called her his Hiawatha. I have heard of the black Welsh and the Black Irish ......have any of you heard this before.
on my dads side of the family The Riley's were also dark but not as dark as the Roberts side of the family .....a couple of generations back one uncle Charles Smith was listed as tin smith he was supposed to have been born in Newcastle 1867 but cannot find a record for him and his father Henry Smith is recorded on my great grandmothers marriage cert as being a well sinker......having a lot of trouble pinning this chap down as well. I know his wife Lucy came to st Helens and is on the 1881 census with her daughter Lucy and son Charles Smith but Henry is not with them.

[Steve G]

Black Irish ......have any of you heard this before?

Black Irish

Kassejayne; I wish I could show you my mate, Tony! As Irish as Co. Leitrim. His hair is jet black. His eyes and skin are dark brown!  And, I mean dark! Guy's a complete anomaly.

So, yeah, I guess He must be one of these " Black Irish " types. Look at google images and it's laughable! Load of pale people with light brown hair!

Don't know where that leaves us. But, there it is. Don't be put off by a glimpse at a few celebrity pictures, on google. The real deal drinks in my local.