Louisa Kirchner - 1841 look-up please.

[Phil Goater]

Louisa Kirchner married Samuel Parker in Swansea in 1848. The question is - was she in Swansea in 1841 and, if so, with whom?
She was born in Limerick in Ireland about 1829.

Phil

[Pels.]

Hi Phil,

The nearest I can find is a Louisa Kirknon? See what you think anyway!

1841 census
HO107/1426/8, folio 14, page 19

Glamorgan, Swansea
Strand

Paterick Gahagan, 30, Tailor
Margt, 35
Louisa Kirknon, 16

None of whom were born in county.

Kind regards,

Pels

[Phil Goater]

Thanks Pels, that certainly looks interesting.
In 1848 Louisa was 'of full age' per her wedding certificate which suggests she was born earlier than 1829! I note that nobody else appears to go by the name Kirknon anywhere and that there was a Gahagan born in Limerick in 1833. It could be her.

Cheers,
Phil

[Phil Goater]

New information hot off the press!

Patrick Gahagan is reported to have married the widow Margaret Kirchener in St.Michaels, Limerick.
In the light of that I would appreciate it if you could find Patrick and Margaret for me in the 1851 and 1861 census returns.

Regards,
Phil

[Lauraine]

Do you know if your Louisa Kirchner was an Irish Palatine?  My 4 x G. Grandfather Henry Albright (aka Heinrich Albrecht) m. a Mary Carkner (aka Maritje Kirchner) in Albany, NY abt 1782 in Albany Lutheran Church, Albany, NY Colony.  Both ended up in Canada after the Revolution and Marys parents were Wilhelm Kirchner and Christina "Justina" Harmsen.  She was born 1765 in Albany, NY Colony.

Longshot, but saw the name and it is not common.  Know this off topic of Wales, but had to ask.

Lauraine (Canada)

[osprey]

possible death registrations
Margaret Gahagan  sept qtr 1847 Swansea vol 26 pg 363
      "               "        june qtr 1851 Swansea vol 26 pg 416
      "               "        dec qtr 1851   Swansea vol 36 pg 387

[Phil Goater]

Thank you for the renewed interest! 

The idea that Louisa may be of Irish Palatine stock has been mooted elsewhere on Rootschat (see Kirchner in Limerick).  I haven't been able to prove that one way or the other but although the Irish Palatine Association can't substantiate it, it must be a possibility.

According to the wedding certificate Louisa's father was Benjamin Kirchner, cabinet maker. I have a theory that that was in fact her brother standing in, in the absence of her father who had died by then. There was a Benjamin Kirchner, cabinet maker b.Limerick 1818 who settled in the Midlands.  He was the son of Simon and Mary. They had 3 sons christened at Limerick Cathedral and then two girls followed with parents Simon and Margaret.  It was the widow Margaret Kirchner who married Patrick Gahagan in Limerick with whom Louisa was residing in 1841 in Swansea. I rest my case!

One of Benjamin's brothers was called Gottlieb which suggests a strong Germanic connection (and perchance a religious bent) - perhaps the grandparents were there (but where???!).

I'd be interested to know if any of Lauraine's migrant Kirchner ancestors were cabinet makers!

Thanks to Osprey for the information concerning Margaret. The absence of Patrick and Margaret from subsequent census returns suggests an early demise.

Regards,
Phil

[Lauraine]

My 4x G. Grandmother was b . 1765 in Albany, NY Colony to Wilhelm Kirchner (b. abt 1732) and Christina "Justina" Harmsen b. 1734.  Both her parents were said to be born in Albany, NY Colony which suggests they were Palatines.  There were ship's manifests for some of the Palatines and did find my May (Mey) family in one group arriving in NY 1709.

Are there no ships records for the Irish Palatines that were sent to Ireland?  Keep thinking there was something on them.  No idea what profession Wilhelm Kirchner had in NY.  His family anglocized the name Kirchner to Carkner.  Conrad Carkner was a proven Loyalist.  Have found the odd Kirchner in some Albany Parish records, but to date have not found info on Wilhelm or his wife Justina.

Lauraine

[Phil Goater]

Hi Lauraine,

                 I was very interested to see your surmise that your Louisa Kirchner came from Palatine stock. I'm also investigating the background of a Louisa Kirchner who was born in Limerick in Ireland c.1829. Her wedding certificate gives her father as Benjamin, a cabinet maker but I strongly suspect that this was her elder brother standing in for her father since her mother had remarried. It would appear that her father was Simon Kirchner (whose surname was also spelt Kirchener). He appears to have had an earlier child christened at Limerick Cathedral as Gottlieb Simon Kirchner which I think confirms his German credentials!
                Somewhere (!) I have a record of a contact with someone else who investigated an American Kirchner family and who reported that they were also in some form of woodworking.
               I take it that Palatines settled in Albany - they also settled in Limerick and I strongly suspect a Palatine heritage but have yet to find any conclusive proof.

Regards,
Phil