drownings in the thames

[Darian Zam]

Due to time constraints I'm only answering questions that I feel is information which is not obvious and/or available online, already discussed and people don't read,  and also now relevant rather than redundant at this point given we've come quite some way in solving this.
I'll try to remember to ask about the drownings data archive. Not sure it's the same as the other one for which a link has been provided - which is earlier and obviously available online.

But, you have no proof of marriage?
You have no proof of travel?
You have no proof of death?

Also, you don't answer questions put to you.

Were her parents In NZ or did the come back to England?

When were these wills dated

Apparently there is a database specifically of deaths in the Thames but it is not available online and one must visit in person to look at it.

Where is it held 

[Darian Zam]

It doesn't say where but possibly he left for a passenger ship run, beginnning in London to Capetown, Natal, Albany, Melbourne Sydney and back again. I've no idea how long the run took, but if this is him it could indicate has was, or at least by this time, working as a steward on White Star Lines and then the likelihood he met Mary on the return trip from Sydney back to London is a real possibility. This would mean the trip one way would take about 2 weeks? I'm not sure that's enough time but possible. He could have done a couple of return runs by Jan 5. Some things don't match up exactly but worth consideration. This was the only real possiblity for Arthur and/or A Grant in migrant records.


Name Mr A Grant
Sex Male
Age 23 years
Birth Date 1877
Event Place (Original) England, United Kingdom
Travel Place CAPE, SOUTH AFRICA
Arrival Place SOUTH AFRICA
Marital Status Single
Occupation SEAMAN
Event Type Emigration
Event Date 27 October 1900


www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:68GQ-942X?lang=en

The obit for Arthur mentions he returned to England on January 5th.   He was due to be buried but his uncle saw something in the paper and contacted Arthurs father and they identified him before that burial.  His funeral was then postponed to the following week.

Where are they on the 1901 census

[hepburn]

According to the newspaper he was 21 and a steward!

[Darian Zam]

As suspected the press made a mistake in reportage. The Moravian was not P&O, it was White Star. Therefore Polly met Arthur on her passage between Sydney and London when he was working as a steward and they started an affair and she became pregnant. This would have happened by Dec 1900 and she obviously knew and told him when he returned from further runs in early Jan 1901, and they had moved in together at Plumstead by early Feb.
Also as suspected it is likely the loss of his job had something to do with this as well as the fact he moved out of his parents' home.
 It is highly likely that John Grant retells a sanitized version of the story as more was known at the time than he lets on. He would have known that Polly was not some random woman who fell in the water and his son just happened to be strolling by and tried to come to the rescue but he decided to influence the story to make it more palatable.
I am not sure how accessible London papers were in Australia and New Zealand so how quick news was able to be conveyed. Telephones existed but were not common at this time, the first trans-Atlantic call took until 1927 but perhaps telegrams were popular by this time. Mary's sister in law Alice Tyree was still keeping a diary and writing letters and cards on their 1905 journey to London, published in 1996 by Arbour Press as 'A Budget of News.' She does not mention anything about Polly in it although, I will read it again to make sure I didn't miss anything.
I digress, Alfred Tyree, Alice's husband and Polly's brother, may have asked the manager of the London office to keep an eye on the press for any articles so they were informed (on how to not attract any attention to themselves).

Kentish Independent 4th May 1901
A Woolwich Mystery
The bodies of a Man and a Woman were found in the Thames last week, and at the inquest a verdict of "Found Drowned' was returned.  On Saturday the deceased man was identified as Arthur E Grant, a Steward formerly employed on the P&O Liner Moravian. He and a young woman from Australia, whose name was Mary Tyrel, had been living together at the house of Mrs Harden, 28 Westdale Road, Plumstead and the woman was expecting to become a mother

ADDED
They are not at 28 Westdale Road on the 1901 census

[Darian Zam]

Absolutely, somebody knew something but they all decided to join ranks and pretend it didn't happen. They didn't repatriate her body or memorialize her in any way and forgot about her with deliberation.

We found you, Polly. We see you. You existed. I'm sorry this happened to you.



Mary Hodgman (Polly Tyree, 1872-1901

Her relatives did know something about her drowning then!

[Darian Zam]

They have looked for Arthur and Polly in the 1901 census earlier in this thread. No dice. I also looked... but there are a handful of Mrs Hardens in Plumstead. Maybe 4 give or take. Hard to know which one she is without any extra info.

Just wondering whether anyone has looked for Mrs Harden in the 1901 census?

[rosie99]

Jessie E Harden was at 28 Westdale Road in the 1901 census with her husband, children, brother in law and one lodger

[cockney rebel]

Hi
I have followed this thread with interest although I thought some posts were not quite "polite"
I am pleased that you have closure for your Mary.
In my opinion, our ancestors deserve that. Their lifetimes were so very different to ours in the "moral" sense.
Rebel

[Darian Zam]

Great. Thanks! I'd be interested to know when they usually conducted the census and whether they did it throughout then Britain at the same time or it varied. In New Zealand it was conducted around mid-June with a supplementary added in July from memory. Sometimes this can make all the difference in working out a story timeline.

Jessie E Harden was at 28 Westdale Road in the 1901 census with her husband, children, brother in law and one lodger