drownings in the thames

[rosie99]

I have just looked at all the articles again and it does say Tyree in some so please ignore my previous amendment

[Darian Zam]

The new information dependent on accuracy of reportage and what means it passed through, combined with historical knowledge of the family,  raises a couple of dozen questions to be explored.
Just one being how much of the information about themselves Arthur and Mary passed to the landlady was accurate or true, to begin with. Obviously she was not from Australia and there's various possibilities how this misinformation came about, but it could have been deliberate. I am also speculating they may have told the landlady they were a married couple.
By this time Mary's (step) brother Alfred, once in business with her brothers William and Fred in photography, was successful enough as a merchant and industrialist to have London offices so there's possibility it played into this situation.
Clearly the family made a pact to not mention it and just let the 'scandal' die  and that was a relatively successful strategy. Especially as info was thin on the ground and the incident was relatively minor and out of the news cycle pretty quickly. There are no records of the deaths I can find which sparks a number of questions in itself pointing to what *really* happened.
As I say on the other thread the Tyrees were no stranger to illegitimacy and had a curiously cavalier to creation and raising of progeny, to put it nicely.
So I think the illegitimate child was far less of a reason than, say, other factors may have been for all that happened.
I should clarify that my understanding from what I read is what was inferred between the lines, that it was likely a double suicide or rather, triple if you count a child which sounds like it was quite a way along, But who knows, for sure.
Mary may have fallen in and then Arthur jumped in to save her and also drowned but given her specifically odd behavior and words to the landlady in the last conversation and sighting of them alive, well as it was relayed via the press,  it sure doesn't sound like they were planning on coming back.
 There are still a bunch of things that don't entirely add up about all of it. i guess we will continue to explore and see where that takes us.

Whoops,  In my excitement I misread the name in the newspaper they had the surname as Tyrel.  As she had not been identified at that time I am sure it should be Tyree as all the other information matches

[Darian Zam]

It is a horrible and tragic story but I would not describe living with a partner who has stuck by you as having 'nowhere to turn.'
I mention in  previous comment that whilst the illegitimate pregnancy was likely a factor over all, given the family's history it was less of a factor than other aspects like not having any means.
Why Arthur lost his job is one of many questions and plays into the finale seemingly. Mary had a wealthy brother with London connections.
I don't have time to recount the out of wedlock children, partner swaps, giving away children,  and even kid swaps in this local branch but they just kept moving along through it all as if it wasn't a big deal.
It's just that I think this potential 'scandal' was 3 x worse and by the time it happened the family had a number of successful and prominent businessmen; and more of a 'reputation' to protect was motivation in what was - and to a degree WASN'T - done in response perhaps. They sure didn't repatriate her body.
it's obvious the family made effort to bury the incident. Quite successfully for over 120 years! Mainly by just not acknowledging it or her existence. The way it was worded in the tree, with Arthur, unnamed in the note, as Mary's 'husband'...'died with husband on visit to London...'  does indicate a retelling passed down by someone who did know and decided to finally tell but only what was chosen to be told, the scantest of details that were not really 'clues' per se. It was not a 'visit' which makes it sound like a holiday.
At that time when this person was researching the kind of resources we tap into now just weren't freely available but I believe if they had access to these articles as someone who clearly paid attention to detail it would have been described accurately.
We don't know anything about Arthur Grant yet, there is a lot to look into. 
Over all I think what is horrible is that her family, particularly brothers and sisters all just pretended she never existed. One of them must have loved and missed her, and been saddened by what transpired. Yet it was more important to hush it up than express grief in any way publicly.

Well, Congratulations to Rosie and PatLac in particular and to all who have worked on this.

Another true Rootschat success story!

Poor girl, expecting a baby and nowhere to turn.  Tragic.

Sue

[Darian Zam]

Better two than none! Thanks.

Isn’t this Rosie’s initial find?

Oops sorry 

[Darian Zam]

Find My Past seem to have an 'arrangement' with BNA so it is more likely they have a library edition or at least the info is accessible via FindMyPast, as FindMyPast definitely have a library edition which is able to be used for free with any library card in Australia.There is on eway to find out, I guess.

Excellent result! I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to do a newspaper search before Rosie's great find. 

Is there a global  library edition of BNA like Ancestry for public libraries you can access for free as a member,  or is it only available for users  in Britain?

In answer to this early question from Darian, I'm not sure about a library edition of BNA, it might depend on the particular library and whether they are happy to subscribe. I know my local library has both Ancestry and findmypast available for members to use on site.

[Darian Zam]

Thanks for this.

The Surrey Times 4th May 1901 has a lengthy article on Arthur Grant - He lived in Weybridge, Surrey with his parents.  He had apparently been living in Woolwich for about 10 weeks prior to drowning, his father suggested that he had lost his life trying to save the woman who was with him

Thank you Hepburn, it was pure luck.  Strange how things happen like that sometimes 

[Darian Zam]

SS 'Moravian' manifest showing 'Mrs. M. Tyree', married, age about 27, embarking from Sydney, Australia in Nov 1900 to Melbourne, Albany West Australia, then Natal Brazil, Capetown South Africa, ending at London.
The migration manifests for crew were usually separate from what I've seen. If it exists it should list him as A Grant a steward sometime between mid 1900  and mid 1901.
However 'Moravian' was an Aberdeen White Star Line ship launched Jan 1899 and this seems to have been its regular route London to Australia and vice versa.
One would assume Polly must have met Arthur on the ship, as a steward and they started to have an affair. I wonder if this had something to do with him losing his job but clearly not that we can tell. Because Arthur worked for the P&O Lines. Well, assuming the press had that detail correct, or at some point he could have changed jobs.

The order as listed on the document may not be completely correct it obviously makes more sense the vessel went to South Africa, Brazil then London.
So, a young lady's 'Grand Tour' gone wrong? Or, well, not quite as intended.

Name   M Tyree
Sex   Female
Age   27
Birth Date   1873
Arrival Date   9 Nov 1900
Marital Status   Married
Event Type   Emigration
Event Date   9 Nov 1900
Event Place   Victoria, Australia

Assuming 'Mrs' and married' are errors as per shipping manifests being riddled with them.

prov.vic.gov.au/archive/1185CAA6-FA02-11E9-AE98-F784F22FEE0D?image=101

PatLac,  That is very true. 

jaywit, Thank you that looks perfect 

There is a notice in the Leeds Mercury 29th December 1900 under Shipping Notices about the Moravian sailing out to Australia.  I wonder if they had both been on it when it had come to England

[Darian Zam]

James Tyree had his own studio here for a time, in Forth Place  and the Tyree family home was in Forth Place, which no longer exists. William Tyree, James' brother is mentioned in Mary Hodgman Tyree's school records as being her father living at Forth Place. William was photographers Fred and William Tyree's father, James was their uncle, he almost definitely taught them photography. At this time James was selling up his premises and leaving to go back to Australia where he had previously had studios West of Melbourne in the Goldfields district (Arrarat, Ballarat etc). He returned to Victoria and that part of the family settled in the Grampians, a town named Stawell from memory, where James established another studio, which was taken over by his sister, Mary Hddgman Brown nee Tyree, Mary Hodgman (Polly) Tyree's aunt and/or then taken over by Polly's brother Edward Tyree.
So plausibility of the brooch engraved 'M.H.' being Polly's is very high.

Could this have belonged to Mary Hodgman?

Correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like her parents lived at "Forth Place, George Street North" their entire lives in NZ? From 1874 Tyree Bros (boots and shoes manufacturers) ads until their death in 1885 (Ann Catherine) and 1889 (William)?

Page 3 Advertisements Column 5
Evening Star, Issue 10882, 16 March 1899, Page 3

FOUND
Initials M.H., Forth place, Gold Brooch. Apply William Andrew, St. David street.

On second thought, it seems Wiliam's brother James was selling the premises soon after his death.

TO LET, the Premises in Forth place and George street, recently occupied hy Mr Jas. Tyrie. Specially suitable for Cab Proprietor. Four Cottages, Stable, Paved Yard, and Vacant Section; will be let cheap to respectable tenant. Edmund Smith, Savings Bank.

Advertisements Column 4
Evening Star, Issue 8041, 18 October 1889, Page 3

[hepburn]

Just wondering whether anyone has looked for Mrs Harden in the 1901 census?