What Happend to Thomas NEWTON?

[deb usa]

Hi again

I think Charles Mumford may have been fibbing a little with his age (39) when he married Mary Blackler Newton.

1871:
Plymstock
Charles MUMFORD head wid 40 quarryman
William J son unm quarry boy
Louisa dau 9 Scholar
Elizabeth  A dau 6 scholar
Sophia L dau 5
Elizabeth SNELL   Mother-in-law wid 64

AHA ..... I think that the death I posted re Charles Friend Mumford may be the correct one ....

1861:
Plymstock
Sally Ann Warley head mar 53 seaman's wife
CHARLES F MUMFORD head mar 29 labourer b Plymstock
Emma wife mar 28 b Stoke damerel
William son  3 scholar b Plymstock

marriage:
Charles FRIEND Mumford
Emma SNELL
sept q 1857, Plymouth
vol 5b pg 399

deb

[deb usa]

Hi again

Here is Charles in 1841

Plymstock

James MUMFORD 35 quarryman
Agness Mumford 40
CHARLES  " 10
James       "  8
John         "   6
Thomas     "  4

I CANNOT find a marriage for Charles' parents, neither can I find baptisms for the children ....whats with that?

deb

[Valley]

Hi Deb
I did see that one for Charles Friend! Mumford  will send for that and see.
Did some searching on divorce laws came into force 1857 on the grounds of non consummation, desertion, adultery  and selling a wife!! not sure how you sell a wife.

The ironic part of this is my Partner has the name of HUNFORD one letter diff.and they came from the west country. I will look into that one as I have come to a full stop on that one as well before 1839 in London.

Friend is a strange name don't you think?

Maybe they did divorce and she put widow could not have been non consummation but could be adultery or desertion of Thomas, its odd we cant find a death at that time. we will see by that death for him.

Speak soon

Val

[JAP]

Just for completeness ...

Those who have contributed on this lengthy thread may wish to know that the same topic is now also being discussed on the following thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,255065.0

...  your rellie has Thomas Newton being born in Holbrook, but Thomas in the census , states that he was born in Notts, Sutton In Ashfield.

1851 has Thomas 3, 1861 has Thomas 14, 1871 has Thomas 22.
Birthplace always Sutton in Ashfield.

The births of the three children of Septimus NEWTON & Grace BEMBRIDGE (1841 - William 2; 1851 - William not with his parents, Edwin 8, Thomas 3) are presumably the following:
*William NEWTON b Belper Derbyshire (Belper includes Holbrook) - either Jun qtr 1839, Vol 19, Page 410 or Dec qtr 1839, Vol 19, Page 352; possibly the latter as a William NEWTON d Belper, Sep qtr 1839, Vol 19, Page 290
*Edwin NEWTON b Jun qtr 1842, Belper Derbyshire, Vol 19, Page 418
*Thomas NEWTON b Sep qtr 1847, Mansfield Nottinghamshire, Vol 15 Page 499 (Mansfield includes Sutton in Ashfield)

Valley has mentioned on the other thread that she has ordered the death cert of Thomas NEWTON, 25, d Mar qtr 1872 in Radford Notts.  Another possibility might be Thomas NEWTON, 25, d Jun qtr 1872 in Strand, London.  Also (though this would mean he was not the father of Charles) Thomas NEWTON, 24, d Sep qtr 1871 in Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire.

JAP

[Valley]

Hi
Have my doubs if he was father to George Septimus as he was born 1868/9 and he married Mary in 1871 he was 22 on when he married 3rd feb 1871 she remarried 9/3/1873 to Charles Mumford I have marriage certs for these.   

Val

[JAP]

Valley,

There seems to be every reason to accept that George Septimus NEWTON was the son of Thomas NEWTON & Mary BLACKLER, and little or no reason to doubt it!

- Earlier, on this thread, you have told us that you have the birth certificate of George Septimus NEWTON which lists his parents as Thomas NEWTON, Seaman Royal Navy, and Mary BLACKLER.
- George Septimus NEWTON was born Jun qtr 1868 (10 May 1868).  At that stage, his father Thomas would have been going on for 21 years old (Thomas was born Sep qtr 1847).
- You have told us that Thomas's age is given as 23 (which is correct) at his marriage to Mary BLACKLER in Feb 1871; Thomas was said to be a Seaman in the Merchant Service (probably the most reliable occupation as Thomas himself would have provided it).  Thomas and Mary were living at the same address when they married.  Thomas's age was slightly understated (as 22) in  the Apr 1871 census.
- Septimus was the given name of the father of Thomas NEWTON.
- On the 1871 census, George is listed as the son of Thomas NEWTON
- On the 1881 census, George is listed as the son of Mary's first husband.
- You have told us that, on his 1897 marriage cert, George lists his father as Thomas NEWTON, sailor.

The simplest explanation is often/usually to be preferred unless there are very good reasons to go for something more complicated.
And the simplest explanation in this case is that Thomas was the father of George Septimus NEWTON and also of Sarah Susan Jane NEWTON (both pre-nuptial) and also - though not necessarily - of Charles NEWTON.

Similarly, the simplest explanation is that Thomas NEWTON died sometime between the 1871 census and the marriage of Mary (BLACKLER) NEWTON in Feb 1873 to Charles MUMFORD.  Rather than thinking that Thomas was still alive and Mary was a bigamist!

Of course, things might turn out to be different - but best to exhaust the simple explanations first. 

JAP
PS: It would be interesting to know whether the Dec qtr 1872 birth cert of Charles NEWTON lists Mary's husband Thomas as deceased ...

[Valley]

Hi All

Just had mail from Canada Charles John Birthday Sept 30th 1872 so Thomas if that is hid death in Nottingham would just be the Father have asked contact if she has certificate wait and see. She is just as foxed as we are. Still awaiting the cert for Thomas in Nottingham and Charles Mumford

Val

[deb usa]

Val

Have the death certs arrived yet ...we are waiting with bated breath.....

deb 

[Valley]

Hi Deb
Been a delay with them will be arriving mid week or so have ordered Thomas Newton Radford Notts, this one I am not sure about Charles F Mumford again not sure if this is right  and Richard Saunders hope we are going along the right track, have been trying to find out more but its like banaging a head against a brick wall. I am not going to let this one rest!! till I find out the details of this family.

I will do a mail as soon as I receive them.

Val