Missing COLLIER in Dewsbury?

[heywood]

her name is Holly Scales - Christopher is mentioned by Rupie. Holly mentioned the dancing connection - Catharine was a governess I think at a school before her marriage not a dancer - but I suppose it's all in the translation.

[rupiezucki]

Have you people thought of going into the detective business?

I am the Holly of whom you speak.   

Ada turned out to be Benjamin Joyce's sister, at least he HAD a sister named Ada.  I think I was misinformed there.

Yes Catharine did a stint as a governess, but the family refered to the 'dancing' connection fairly often.  I think they were more than a bit scandalized.  The HILLS were a huge family and many of the children left home young.

Now to the Lidster connection - I was wrong about ow the Collier got in there - but I knew they were ours....

Thomas Lidster from Seamer married Isabella Cooke UMPLEBY.  Isabella was the niece of Mary UMPLEBY who married Monkman PEACOCK.

Thomas and Isabella's daughter Elizabeth Umpleby LIDSTER (wrongly reported as Uppleby on the birth reg Jun 1848) married Pearson COLLIER, and their daughter Isabella is the Isabella Collier living with Thomas and Ann (the former housekeeper, Ann WHITE) in 1881.

Now here's another one ... but maybe it should rightly go on the North Riding board...

In 1871, Thomas was living in Seamer, with Ann (38), stepson Henry White (12) and George Lidster, grandson age 1.

George was born in Scarbro. His birth was reg Sep 1869.  If he is grandson - then Thomas and Isabella had a son.  I can find no record yet of a son.  Here are the census reports:

1841 Thomas is at home (age 20) with his father Thomas in Seamer.

1851 Seamer Dist 13
Thomas Lidster 31
Isabella Cooke 28
Jane Ann 6
Elizabeth 2 (birth reg Jun 1848)
Jane Umpleby 21 sis in law

all born in Seamer (Seamer registered in Scarbro)

Isabella Cooke Umplelby LIDTSER death reg Scarbro 1857

1861 Seamer Dist 7
Thomas LIDSTER 40
Elizabeth 12
Sushanna 8 (Susanna birth reg Dec 1851)
Emily 7 (birth reg Jun 1853)
Ann White 28 housekeeper b Thornton
Henry White 3 boarder b Falsgrave

all born Seamer except Ann and Henry

1871 Seamer Dist 7
Thomas LIDSTER 51
Ann 38
Henry WHITE 12 stepson
George LIDSTER 1 - grandson (birth reg Sep 1869 Scarbro)

1881 Seamer
Thomas LIDTSER 61 (mistranscribed as 68)
Ann 48
Henry White 22
Isabella COLLIER 4 Scarbro (Isabella Cook Umpleby COLLIER birth reg Dec 1876)

Thomas LIDSTER death reg Sep 1889 Scarbro

1891

Isabella is in service with the Robinsons as previosuly reported (age 14)

Seamer (on Main Street)
Ann
George



So ...  did Thomas and Isabella have a son that I can't find any records of, or was George born to one of the girls' out of wedlock - anyone know the naming protocol's of illegitmate children then?

Thanks again
Rupie

[heywood]

I regret to say I am a bit unsure re the Lidsters and it is quite unfair of you to bring another puzzle into this one that is taxing all our minds and energies 

However, I can say that George, I believe, is Elizabeth's illegitimate son. If you look for him in 1881 he is here:

RG11; Piece: 4806; Folio: 100; Page: 1

1 Cloughton Lane, Cloughton
Pearson Collier 36 yrs general labourer b Cloughton
Elizabeth 31 yrs b Seamer
George Lidster stepson 11 yrs  b Seamer
Christopher Collier 2 yrs b Cloughton


Free BMD September quarter 1869 George Lidster Scarbro' Vol 9d pg 316 (as you mentioned already)

[heywood]

having had yet another look for variations on a theme of Isabel Beatrix Collier and drawn absolute blanks, I can only think that in 1891 she was well hidden- perhaps she was registered at birth in another name. Perhaps she ws adopted and wasn't Catharine's child at all.
I imagine that to emigrate you would have to have some proof of identity- does anyone know?

I don't think she was Florence Ellen- as I said she turns up later.

At the moment, though I hate to say it, I am conceding defeat until something else turns up.

best wishes to everyone
heywood

[hol]

hello
one of many i will keep returning to but i dont hold out much hope on this one.
lee

[heywood]

it's so odd that she isn't with Catharine in 1891 - she could have been in hospital - I doubt that she would have been away at school- adn she would have turned up on a census anyway then.
I have looked as much as I can, at Catherine's relatives to see if she is there. She could even be with her birth father I suppose.
Trouble is when it comes to the crunch we haven't a clue 

[rupiezucki]

Thank you all for your help so far.

Does anyone know if I was to go to the central GRO office, are the files searchable?

Thanks again,
Rupie

[toni*]

have you checked the BMD under Catharines maiden name?

[heywood]

I've tried Isabel/Beatrice/Beatrix Hill on Free BMD- she may even have been registered with her father's name and then used Collier because it was easier to fit in with mother. Are there no immigrant records for Canada?

added

I don't think from browsing around that there are many records. I have also just understood why they went round the horn - they went to Vancouver (read over our notes again and it made sense) 

It occurred to me when searching that she may have even 'adopted' someone from the boat as this was the time of group orphans etc being shipped. Then I thought that I am clutching at straws! No evidence of anything!