Place of Birth - Varies

[scrivomcdivo]

I am currently looking at my great, great grandparents - Joseph GREENOUGH and Elizabeth (no maiden name). Now I know they had a child called Joseph GREENOUGH born 1876 and their names have been confirmed on Joseph's marriage certificate.

Having looked at the 1881 census and the 1891 census, I have found two records that seem to match; Joseph and Elizabeth GREENOUGH living in Liverpool with a son called Joseph born c1876.

Now, if you look at the place of birth records for Elizabeth, in one census she is down as being born in Hale, Lancashire. However in the other, she is down as being born in the Isle of Man.

The two addresses in the census are just around the corner from each other and so, I find it hard to see that there is a second family with parents with same names as my ancestors as well as children with same names.

Any comments? Any reason why her place of birth would change from one census to the next?

[avm228]

Now, if you look at the place of birth records for Elizabeth, in one census she is down as being born in Hale, Lancashire. However in the other, she is down as being born in Hale, Lancashire.

I think you mean Isle of Man (1881) versus Hale, Lancashire (1891)?

As always, census information is only as good as the information provided to the enumerator. It's entirely possible that she was the informant on one occasion and another member of the household (her husband?) on another.  It's not uncommon for birthplace info to vary substantially between censuses for the same person.

Anna

[scrivomcdivo]

Thanks for that Anna - was just wondering if information does vary from census to census. It's just a matter of working out which info is true now so I can dig further on Elizabeth. I've ordered their son's birth certificate though so once received, hopefully that will confirm her place of birth.

[Aulus]

The Smiths in my family were absolutely dreadful at this.  Birthplace and (calculated) birth year is different for virtually all of them on every census.

To give them the benefit of the doubt (which I really don't think they deserve), it might be the census enumerator asking the wrong question ("where are you from" rather than "where were you born" maybe).  Not helped by them being illiterate and moving from the Dudley area to Lancashire, so the accent probably didn't help, even if they for once managed to give the right answer.

[avm228]

I've ordered their son's birth certificate though so once received, hopefully that will confirm her place of birth.

It won't say anything about her place of birth, but will give you her maiden name which in turn (one hopes) will enable you to track her down in earlier life

Anna

[Peter Shearan]

I agree with Anna about the information contained in any Census - it is simply what was given to the enumerator by the family concerned, so must be taken as that. There is absolutely no doubt that this is the same family, although taking the ages of the family members shows some discrepancies. This is not uncommon - the present-day idea that everyone knows their birthday wasn't so over 100 years ago (the birthday card industry and social security has changed all that!). Incidentally Elizabeth died shortly after the 1891 census, in the Sep quarter of 1893. Was she perhaps already ill when the 1891 census was taken, and John simply gave what info he thought was correct? That might explain the Hale reference. He himsef was recorded as being born in two places in Liverpool: Gateacre (1881) and Woolton (1891/1901), although both are admittedly adjacent to one another.

Certainly the 1881 says quite clearly that she was born in the Isle of Man. Liverpool was and still is the port for the ferries to there - and John was a docker so he may have met her at the docks. Why he should have recorded Hale is anyone's guess. He was simply a docker. probably illiterate and didn't understand the reason for the census anyway!!!

There is a marriage recorded for a John Greenough in the GRO records - 1879 I think. That would give her surname; and the Isle of Man records are separate from those of England.

Finally you mention the proximity of the two addresses. The days of owner-occupied property were a long way off, and most people rented their homes. In ten years (1881-1891) they may even have moved several times. The polling lists would show that.

Hope this helps
Peter

[scrivomcdivo]

Peter, many many thanks for your reply.

Incidentally Elizabeth died shortly after the 1891 census, in the Sep quarter of 1893. Was she perhaps already ill when the 1891 census was taken, and John simply gave what info he thought was correct?

Can you confirm that this is one of the same Elizabeth? I have been looking for info in relation to her death and have had no joy as yet.