Help? Disappearance?

[JenClark]

Decided to check the other witness in case he was with her, but alas no 

This is her anyway in case she proves to be important later...

1901 - 61 Layard Road, Bermondsey, Surrey

Thomas Clark Head M 58yrs Clerk b. Camberwell, London
Edith Ann Clark Wife M 40yrs b. Bexley Heath, Kent
Christine Mabel Clark Dau 21yrs Clerk b. Bexley Heath, Kent
Henry Thomas Clark Son 17yrs Office Lad b. Eltham, Kent
Elsie Louise Clark Dau 15yrs b. Eltham, Kent
Reginald Arnold Clark Son 13yrs b. Dartford, Kent
George Wm Clark Son 8yrs b. Camberwell, London

Jenny

[JenClark]

Think I might have found Charles 

1881 - 49 Merrow Street, St Mary's Newington, Lambeth, Surrey (RG11; Piece: 547; Folio: 46; Page: 26)

Mary Griffin Head W 48yrs Upholstress b. Walworth, Surrey
Walter Griffin Son 17yrs Zinc Worker b. Walworth, Surrey
Alfred Griffin Son 10yrs Scholar b. Walworth, Surrey
Charles D Mynn Nurse Child 1yr b. Lambeth, Surrey

He was in the index as Mysin but it definately says Mynn 

So perhaps it is Clara as the barmaid 

Jenny

Right well, after looking for ages I finally found 109 Mann Street - only to find Charles not there, but guess who was there.......his foster mum Mary Griffin 

There are two families at the address, don't think they are related but will put all the details down in case.

1901 - 109 Mann Street, Newington, St Stephen, Southwark (RG13; Piece: 379; Folio: 57; Page: 30)

Amelia Holmes Head Wid 76yrs b. Blackfriars, London
Amelia Bool GDau S 26yrs Book folder b. Lambeth, London
Annie Devall Niece S 40yrs Book folder b. Lambeth, London
Alice Devall Niece S 36yrs Book folder b. Lambeth, London
Ernest Randell Nephew S 18yrs Printer b. Lambeth, London
Edith Randell Niece S 16yrs Book folder b. Lambeth, London

and

Mary Griffin Widow 68yrs b. Newington, London
Annie Jarrett Niece S 44yrs Charity? b. Camberwell, London

Not sure where Charles was but it seems that he was still living with his foster family in 1903

Jenny

[JenClark]

Well this is certainly turning into a big challenge!

I thought that I would chase the other members of the foster family in the 1891 and 1901 census in case he was with his foster brothers but he seems not to be there either 

Here are the details in case you want them:

1891 - 95 Portland Street, St Mary's, Newington, Walworth, London

Mary Griffin Head Wid 56yrs Needlewoman (shirt) b. Walworth, London
Alice Hooker Dau Wid 29yrs Charing b. Walworth, London
Alfred Griffin Son S 20yrs Bacon? ?? b. Walworth, London
Nellie Hooker Grandchild 2yrs b. Walworth, London
John Strudwick Friend Wid 57yrs Plumber b. Camberwell, London

1891 - 53 Cator Street, Camberwell, St Luke's, London

Walter W Griffin Head M 27yrs Labourer (iron foundry) b. Walworth, London
Elizabeth S Griffin Wife M 21yrs b. Walworth, London

So no Charles there...perhaps the Charles Griffin at the school is your man??

Marriages:
Walter William Griffin m. Elizabeth Sarah Wilson Sept Q 1889 St Saviour Southwark

Alfred John Griffin m. Amelia Hannah Strudwick Dec Q 1891 Kingston, Middlesex/Surrey

Alice Mary Griffin m. Harry Hooker Sept Q 1885 St Saviour Southwark

1901 - 43 Beaker? Road, St Lukes, Camberwell, London

Walter Griffin Head M 37yrs Bricklayer b. Newington, London
Elizabeth Griffin Wife M 31yrs b. Camberwell, London
Lillian Griffin Dau 9yrs b. Camberwell, London
Florence Griffin Dau 6yrs b. Camberwell, London
Benjamin Griffin Son 4yrs b. Camberwell, London
Clara Griffin Dau 2yrs b. Camberwell, London
George Griffin Son 1yr b. Camberwell, London
Frederick Wilson Brother-in-law S 29yrs Bricklayer b. Newington, London

1901 - 25 Ripley Street, Newington, St Andrew, Southwark

Alfred Griffin Head M 30yrs Coal Trolleyman b. Newington, London
Amelia Griffin Wife M 30yrs b. Newington, London
Ruth M Griffin Dau 8yrs b. Newington, London
Florence M Griffin Dau 4yrs b. City, London
John Strudwick Father-in-law Wid 66yrs Zinc Worker b. Camberwell, London

Not sure that that really helps much but at least it cancels out some possibilities 

Jenny

[scottcharles]

You really do work some magic! Well, that is really interesting - at least I know that he didn't end up in the work house as a small child then, that Mary Griffin must have done her job

I wonder where he was then. By 1901 he would have been a bit too old for the school I reckon, but in 1891 that could well by him. Would a child being cared for by a foster family go to a district school?

I wonder if he adopted the name Griffin...He was only 1 in the 1881 census, so I can see why the name wasn't changed.

Poor Clara, I really hope she didn't end up in the poor house. I did a lot of reading on them last night and they seem like awful places.

I'm glad that Charles wasn't in one though, that's one neck saved (we think!)

Thanks again Jen, really appreciate all your hard work.

[scottcharles]

I got a great email from Lee Jackson who runs the victorianlondon.org website today that I thought you might be interested in:

Merrow Street is certainly visible ...
url here
a poor street, but not terrible. You can see the comments on the area here
http://booth.lse.ac.uk/notebooks/b365/jpg/117.html

This is where Mary Griffin was when Charles Davies Mynn was a baby  in 1881[ed]

I wouldn't read anything into the distance particularly. As for baby farmers, my impression is that by the 1870s they would not be used by workhouses in the same way as in Oliver Twist. Workhouses and parish authority were becoming more professional, I think. See http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1989-0/haller.htm for the legislative moves against the practice in the 1870s. Rather, baby-farmers advertised in the press and quietly "cared for" or disposed off infants that were an encumbrance or an embarassment to their parent, especially illegitimate children. So, if your grandfather was a nurse child with a baby-farmer, he was probably sent there directly by his mother.
 
However, there is no need to see a sinister motive here. There were women who looked after infants as a profession, and whilst some neglected them, actively or passively, there were many who looked after them properly, as well as their means allowed. My guess would be that your mother boarded at the pub, and left the baby in another woman's care. It doesn't mean that she had abandoned the child entirely. Pub hours were very long, in any case, so I wouldn't assume that she lived at the pub either - she may have just been there during the census - but perhaps still left her child with another woman, as she hadn't time to look after him during working hours. It may be nothing more than a full-time nursery place, as it were. Were there other children at the address during the census? That will give some idea, I suppose. The fewer children, I guess the less likely to be a neglectful "baby-farmer"!
 
Sounds like she was a nice ol' foster mum as Charles Davies is the only nurse child listed in 1881 [ed]

See http://www.victorianlondon.org/publications3/newtoilers-19.htm on barmaids ... it wasn't a very respectable job but
"the girls prefer this life to domestic service. They think it more "genteel" to be a barmaid than a servant."

[JenClark]

How interesting, particularly the poverty map, I had never seen that before. I agree it certainly does feel like he was looked after by his foster family, I just wonder where he was in 1901 

Jenny

P.S Glad I could help 

[JenClark]

Hmmm......thought I'd check the foster sister in 1901........but yet again no Charles 

Alice Mary Hooker m. James Soper Mar Q 1899 Wandsworth, London

1901 - 2a Alivett Street, Putney, St Mary's, Wandsworth, London

James Soper Head M 44yrs road sweeper b. Kings??, Hants
Alice Mary Soper Wife M 39yrs b. Walworth
Ernest James Soper Son 13yrs b. Putney, Surrey
William Henry Soper Son 11yrs b. Putney, Surrey
Nellie Hooker Step-dau 12yrs b. Walworth

Where is he hiding??

Jenny

[scottcharles]

I really have no idea, it's so strange the way that he's disappeared like that.
I don't understand it, and I can't think of anyone else he would have been with.
Unless Clara survived that terrible period in her life and they still knew each other?
Maybe she got married?
Hm. Thanks again for your help.

I thought you might be interested in some other findings I've made, less of a census look up - more of a trying-to-figure out what happened thread, the story is here:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=249539.msg1375518#msg1375518

[avm228]

I don't know how you'd be able to investigate this, but I wonder whether Charles's absence in 1901 might be due to service in the Boer War.  Perhaps worth a speculative post on the Armed Forces board?

Anna