Williams?

[annettechivrall]

I am grateful of any help its driving me mad he must have had a few brother & sisters somewhere 

[annettechivrall]

not granda father,  father was called richard

[ovas]

AN65 Yep I do believe you have the true family .Havin compared the 4 cens you posted it looks to me like chas,ada & phoebe is the only p,o,b that remain constant most other details change about between each cen As you would partially expect .Aswell as the 1891 cen showing 2 kids as twins yet these or any of the other generations dont show any more twins.
Personally my conclusion is that Sam is very likley to be Len .It is so like other familys of this type & time, Constantly trying to avoid giving any details to the governments IT.may be the closet to the truth that can be found
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME

Av akai Annettechivrall putcha a chai/chavi /Rauni? Nanti gajikano
the info is tatcho.

[annettechivrall]

I have just read your reply which if true this will change thing s can I ask you would Leonard have lied about his age when marrying he states he is 19 yrs same as his bride but does look older in fact he would have been 25

[ovas]

Yea sure he would

[ovas]

strange that few navs go down the line of this crowd

[Tommypenfold1993]

BINGO got them on 1891 census

They are listed as William not Williams on Ancestry.

Caravan, Donovans Yard, Battersea 1891

Charles Williams head 47 Horse Dealer b.Andover Hants
Mary Ann Williams wife 47 licensed Hawker b.Winchester Hants
Phoebe Williams dtr 13 Hanworth Mx
Henry Williams son 21 Mitcham Sy
Samuel Williams son 16 Willesden London
Ada Williams dtr 16 Hanworth Mx
Caroline Williams gdtr 8 Acton

There is a large group of travellers in Caravans at this place.

There seems to be some children missing here my great great grandmother Mary Ann she married curly Bob (not sure if real name but was what he was called) Penfold she died in 1950 in Battersea and is buried in Wandsworth cemetery he grave stone mentions her mother and farther

[Talacharn]

In Wales the Williams travellers can be traced back to the Scamp family, who in moving to Wales changed their name to belend in with the locals. There are two Scamp hotspots, Devon and Kent, so easy to populate London and the south coast. Those from Devon moved to Wales, but they also bred with Lee and Boswell families. It could be those in London started as Scamps and changed to Williams.