Lambourn 1841 Census - HONEY

[Daryl_P]

Thanks to both of you but I have been to those pages several times.  The wonderful Lambourn records appeared online shortly after I had gone page by page through the same records on microfilm searching out every reference I could find to the Honey family.     Having tried to read those records myself I greatly appreciate all the work to transcribe line records and put them online.  I usually use their index instead of looking at my own notes and I have also used the online index to look at related names I didn't originally have.   

The Lambourn Place page interests me because it paints Henry Hippisley in such a bad light including saying he may have murdered a servent.  Nothing else I ever read says anything bad about Henry Hippisley.  John Honey and at least one of his sons worked for Henry Hippisley.  The son died young but I doubt it was murder.       

[Carmela]

Hi,
Just dug out a couple more sites from my vast collection
of Berkshire resources. If you have not seen them, you may enjoy these. One is on the Hippisleys and the other a really interesting history of Berks and it's people.
      http://www.boddyparts.co.uk
 
     
  http://www.berkshirehistory.com/index.html
 
Enjoy,
Carmela

[newbie]

Hi Daryl,
Went to the B.R.O. and found the following for you,

1851 - I checked first to find address/place
from the index I found
HO107/1686    Folios 589 -631 Lambourne,
Upper Lambourne, 635-646, Woodlands  - 669 - 681 Lambourne   "Honey"
                Age folio
Ambrose    7  615
Charlotte   31 590
David          5   615
Eleanor       5mo  615
Eli               13  615
Eliza            38 615
Henry          14  615
James          10 615
John             70 629
John             42 630
Martha          79 590
Martha          19 719
Sarah            16  615
Septimus        2  615   
William           20 604


William Honey, age 20, High St, Servant, Unmar, b Lambourne. 
Head of Household = Robert Billing, Victualler.

Martha Honey,  79, Newbury St. Head, Mar'd, Almsmans Wife, b Berks Lambourne
Charlotte Honey, 31, Newbury St., daur, Unmarried. b Lambourne.

John Honey, 70, Churchyard, (previous address on page = Goose Green) in Almshouse, Gamekeeper, Wid, b Lambourne

Eliza Honey, 38, Wife, Mar, Ag.Lab, b Wilts Wanbro
Sarah 16, daur, Ag.Lab, b Lambourne
Henry 14, Son, Ag. Lab, b Lambourne
Eli 13, Son, Ag.Lab, b Lambourne
James 10, Son, Ag Lab, b Lambourne
Ambrose, Son, Scholar, b Lambourne
David, 5, Son, Scholar, b Lambourne
Septimus 2, Son, b Lambourne
Eleanor 5m, daur, b Lambourne
Address - Newbury Street, Lambourne.

I couldn't at first understand why she was a Wife and not Head, but then I found John staying somewhere else in Lambourne - at his place of work with other servants.

John Honey, 42,  Labourer, Married, b Lambourne.
Address: - Lambourne Place

So now knowing they were in Lambourne, I checked the 1841 census for them (I only checked Lambourne) couldn't see them still,
then I ran out of time, will try again next time
Newbie

[Daryl_P]

Thanks again to both Carmela and newbie for all the help.  It is greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately, just when I thought I had this family somewhat figured out they threw me a curve though the census records.    

The 1803 Christening record in Lambourn shows my John Honey was son of a John and Martha Honey.  Another Christening record Shows Charlotte Honey was daughter of John and Martha Honey.  There is also a convenient 1803 marriage in Lambourn between John Honey and Martha Steptoe.   

Based on the above I have got to assume that the Martha living with Charlotte is also mother of John.  I would also assume the older John Honey who served as a gamekeeper was my John Honey's father.  Why the heck is the elder John Honey listed as a widow with Martha still alive???  I also have assumed that the Elder John Honey was the John Honey Christened in Lambourn on May 06, 1778.  The census record indicates the elder John was born about 1772.  I am beginning to wonder if there was another John Honey in Lambourn.  There is an April 1860 death record for John Honey of Lambourn.  Would the death certificate name his late wife?  Martha Honey apparently died in January 1853 so one way or another the John who died in 1860 was presumably a widow.

In addition to that, we now have a William Honey born about 1831 in Lambourn working as a servant.  That is sounding more and more like the "family business" but I never knew this William Honey existed until now and I don't know where he fits in the family tree.  Sounds like it is time for me to do some more research and start ordering death certificates.   

[newbie]

Daryl,
Just a thought, shall I check that John aged 70 is def a Wid, I'm absolutely sure that is what it said as that is what is written in my notes, but you never know with that old handwriting, it may have been an M that looked like a W, so will check, especially as Martha is an Almsmans wife, and he is living in an Almsmans cottage?
What a conundrum!
Newbie

[Daryl_P]

I am beginning to feel like I am taking advantage of your generosity but I certainly won't object if you have the opportunity to double check the record.  It didn't even register on me that the 1851 census record says Martha was an Almsman's wife.  If her husband was dead it should say widow.  Sounds like John Honey Senior may not have been a widower in 1851 after all.

I will mention one more wish list item but you should feel free to tell me no if it is an unreasonable request.  I have no idea what records are available in the records office but I have been trying to obtain the correct birth date for my direct ancestor Ambrose Honey.  Parish records show him Christened April 14, 1844 in St. Michael's Church in Lambourn and I have him calculated from his death record as born about January 1844.  I have not been able to find him in the BMD indexes for 1843, 1844 or 1845.  Would there be another local record of his birth?   

Thanks again for your generous help.  Daryl.

[mikematt]

I'm a very distant descendant of the Lambourn Hippisleys. See www.boddyparts.co.uk and click on 'A Brief History of the Hippisley Family' for more information.

I'd be interested in the census records for Henry Hippisley as I only have the info for 1851 and 1881.

Mike

[Daryl_P]

Hi Mike.  I almost feel like we are related since my ancestor worked for your ancestor for so long.  Do you have any idea what may have happened to any of Henry Hippisley's servant records?     

Somebody told me that my ancestor's tombstone states "In memory of John Honey died 19 march 1892 aged 83 years.  For 50 years the faithful servant of Henry Hippisley Esq. of Lambourn Place and also of Eliza his wife Died September (unreadable date) 1888, aged 74 years."  I also found a reference on-line for persons who obtained gamekeepers certificates that said the "Rev.  H. Hippersley" appointed John Honey as a gamekeeper at the "Golding and Eastmanton" manor in 1827.  I am not sure if that reference is the John above or possibly the older John (his father?) listed as a 70 year old gamekeeper in the 1851 census.

As for the census records, I will give you what I have but I don't know that it will be much help with your research.

I have not seen the 1851 census but I understand from others that John Honey was found in the 1851 census living at his place of work.  I don't know if Henry Hippisley was found at home that day or not. 

John Honey was found in the 1861 census at home with his wife and I don't have a record of where Henry Hippisley was.

The 1871 census shows John Honey at Lambourn Place as  the Head but then says "master absent" and his occupation is shown as "servant in charge of mansion".  John's son Enoch Honey age 17 is listed with him at work.  Enoch apparently died in early 1876. 

The 1881 census is transcribed on the familysearch.org site and shows Henry Hippisley, his family and servants including my John Honey.

by 1891 John Honey was in the almshouse and I think Henry Hippisley had already died but I am not sure.

Can you provide any more information of Henry Hippisley?

 

[mikematt]

This is the full entry for Lambourn Place in 1851:

Lambourn Place, Berkshire

Eliza ROTH widow aged 31 Governess born Baden Baden, Germany
Catherine HIPPISLEY daughter 10 Gentleman's Daughter born Lambourn
Agness HIPPISLEY daughter 6 Gentleman's Daughter born London
Eleanor HIPPISLEY daughter 3 Gentleman's Daughter born Lambourn
Beatrix HIPPISLEY daughter 18 months Gentleman's Daughter born Lambourn
Maria LEACH servant 42 Cook born Chawleigh, Devon
Eliza PARROTT servant 31 Housemaid born Wotton, Buckinghamshire
Martha MERRETT servant 28 Housemaid born Bath, Somerset
Lucretia BALL servant 18 Nursery Maid born Nailsworth, Gloucestershire
Hannah COX servant 17 Kitchen Maid born Lambourn, Berkshire
Sarah DANIALS servant 30 Nurse born Whitminster, Gloucestershire
Sarah LYLE servant 23 Ladies Maid born Whitstone, Cornwall
William CURTISS widow servant 40 Butler born Aldbourne, Wiltshire
John HONEY servant 42 Labourer born Lambourn, Berkshire
Richard MILDENHALL servant 31 General Servant born Lambourn, Berkshire

Catherine, Agnes, Eleanor and Beatrix were daughters of Henry Hippisley Junior (1808-1896) and his first wife Elizabeth Agnes Nelson.  Henry himself was in Torquay in 1851 for some unknown reason. He was a widower as Elizabeth died in 1849.

Henry married his second wife, Elizabeth Mary Sulivan, in 1851 with whom he had four more children. Elizabeth was the niece of Henry John Temple, better known as the 3rd Viscount Palmerston, British Prime Minister from 1855-1858.

The Rev H. Hippisley you mentioned was Henry Snr (1776-1838).

I'm afraid I don't know anything about servants records for the Lambourn Hippisleys. The best place to look would be in the Berkshire records office.

Feel free to email me at mike@boddyparts.co.uk.