Kirkmabreck Marriage Carlile / McDowall

[Gadget]

Hi Kay

Your main problem is the date of any marriage    Official registration did not start in Scotland until 1855 so you're reliant on the Old Parish Records or other RC, etc. records being available.

Gadget

[kay11]

Gadget

Thanks again - believe the marriage was around 1847/ 48 and so I take your point.

Can you please advise what source you used when you searched for the marriage between James Carlile & ? McDowall together with deaths was it e.g. scotlandspeople?

K

[Gadget]

Hi Kay

I checked in all the available collections, including Scotland's People, BIVRI and the IGI.

Have you found James Carlile (various spellings) who possibly married a McDowall on any censuses or records?  Did they have any other children? Such answers might help you decide whether there was a marriage or not.

Regards

Gadget

[kay11]

Gadget - you are a STAR ....thk u.

No is the answer to your question....the ONLY piece of evidence I have is the 1851 census were James Carlile aged 2 is with his grandmother Agnes McDowall.

I surmised that a marriage took place as James adopts the surname of Carlile rather than McDowall. I believe James's parents died and this is why he in 1861 is with his paternal grandparents aged 11. I knw his father was also James and that he was a Stone Mason probably working at Creetown quarry he was deceased in 1871 upon James's marriage in Liverpool.

Did any of your sources pick up a Daniel or Peter Carlile - they were brothers of James.....

K

[Gadget]

I think there might have been a Daniel.

Kay - don't go on children's surnames to assume a marriage. Many children there and then were given the name of the father, if it was known, regardless of whether a marriage had taken place or not. I found an unmarried woman with children who had various surnames when doing a look up recently.

It might be worth you checking on SP after 1855  to see if any of the McDowalls or Carlile's married 'according to the forms of the Roman Catholic Church'.

Gadget

[kay11]

OK Gadget ..I'll take a look ....happy hunting!

[Gadget]

Hello Kay

Have you seen the baptism of Ann McDowall, 14th September 1823, Kirkmabreck to Samuel McDowall and Agnes McKean. Also an Agnes 24th January 1837 to the same couple. The Scotland's people site may have more of the children as the online IGI is not always complete. al   This suggests that the McDowall's were unlikely to be RC and that Samuel died mid 1836 - 1841. No Carli(s)les are listed.

There is also the marriage of a Samuel Dowall to Elizabeth Craig in 1836. This Samuel might well be Agnes and Samuel's son as there are baptisms for their children (as McDowall).

A further point: what was the occupation of James, snr, on James, jnr's marriage cert.?

Regards

Gadget

[Gadget]

The Carlyles appear to have moved to Creetown between 1841 and 1851. In 1841 there is only one James Carlyle/Carlile/Carlisle in KKD, b. Ireland, a labourer,  and he was born circa 1802-1806. This might be James (grandfather) who came over before the rest of the family. It's very hard to tell.

GAdget

[kay11]

Thks G ....yes I'm aware of Ann c1823 (I've traced her marriage and life up until 1901) and Agnes c1837 and whilst I was in the area in May I visited Dumfries and the record office managed to track down the above but was dismayed not to find any other siblings i.e. those that appear on the 1841 census. I can only surmise that because the legal requirement of registration didn't exist until 1855 then some births were not registered Interesting that you have turned up a Samuel McDowall marriage in 1836 I missed that one! I'll see what more I can find out..

You point out that Samual McDowall senior probably died 1836 - 1841 I too think that , however an Alexander McDowall appears aged 8 years on the 1851 census son of Agnes - a puzzle indeed... I have been unable to find Alexander thereafter...

As for the Carlile's - you mention James c1802-1806 - what area KKD is he in 1841 and I take it that Ann his wife is not with him?

The Carlile's are facinating there are 3 James Carlile's

James c 1796 Ireland census 1851 - 1871 Creetown/Liverpool

James son of above c 1825 probably Ireland no census trace

James son of above c1849 Creetown census c1851- 1871 Creetown / Liverpool 

James c 1825 is named upon James c1849 marriage in 1871 Liverpool he was a Stone Mason ( Deseased). James c1849 a Engineer on 1871 census and his marriage - in 1872 upon the birth of his daughter his occ Engine Fitter in 1881 his wife is alone in Liverpool and calls herself a Mariners Wife. Their is a family suggestion that James went to Sierre Leone Africa and died there ..... I have been unable to trace his death in Liverpool - by 1891 his wife states she is a widow- his death must have occured between 1881 - 1891 ...some day I'll find him !