Author Topic: Huguenot or not Huguenot  (Read 19791 times)

Offline Arranroots

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Re: Huguenot or not Huguenot
« Reply #36 on: Monday 03 June 13 14:26 BST (UK) »
Genius, Mike!

You'd be great at Twitter, where every character (sic) counts!

:D
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN - HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD - GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS - WIL: WEBB, SALTER - RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS - GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY - MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD - SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON - IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK)

Offline Peter L. Mitchell

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Re: Huguenot or not Huguenot
« Reply #37 on: Sunday 13 October 19 12:22 BST (UK) »
Hi folks.

I'm an Australian descendent of William James Menere, and evidently also of Joseph.
Here's what I have:

Joseph Menere (Maniere in the records I've seen):
Born around 1770 to Charles Maniere and Francois Touron.
Married Toinette Lacombe 1796 at Terrassom-Lavilledieu, Sariat, Dordogne, Aquitaine, France (Joseph aged 26, Toinette aged 24).
13 April 1809 marries Sarah Prickett (Banns). Marriage record spells surname as Menarey.
13 May 1847 dies at 10 Adam Street, Marylebone (occupation recorded as servant).

Son: William James Menere:
Born 3 August 1809 (possibly in London).
Marries Matilda Frances Mead 20 March 1843 in Cheltenham. Marriage certificate gives address at time of marriage as 1 Olney Place and William's occupation as merchant tailor. Father's occupation on certificate given as gentleman. Matilda's father named as Meshack Mead (occupation: plumber).
William and Matilda spent several years in Louth, Ireland, returning briefly to Cheltenham before emigrating to Australia.

Grandson: Henri William Menere.
Baptised 16 April 1843 in Dundalk, Ireland (father's occupation: merchant tailor).
Public Records Office (Victoria) records Henri as a teacher in 1863.
Married Evalina Benson 22 January 1867 in Prahran, Victoria.
1872 was complainant against David Thomas seeking 100 pounds damages for assault. Unable to find result of case.
1877 New South Wales Police Gazette records Henri as having a publican's licence for Mathoura hotel, N.S.W.
Died 21 September 1891 in Melbourne. Death certificate gives cause as asthma, cardiac weakness and diarrhoea (duration 16 years). Occupation recorded as engineer.

Henri's sister: Marion Frances Menere.
Birth 1858 at Keilor Downes, Victoria.
Married John McDonald (storekeeper) 3 June 1884 in Footscray, Victoria.
Daughter Olive Frances (my grandmother) born 7 June 1886 at Wallan Wallan, Victoria.
Died 1854. Buried in Woodend, Victoria.

Olive Frances married Robert Harold Dial in 1919.

I know it's a long time since the initial enquiry, but I hope this helps someone out there.

Peter


Offline cocksie

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Re: Huguenot or not Huguenot
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 26 October 19 05:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Peter
What clues/details pointed you to searching for Joseph in the Dordogne, France area? Am intrigued.
Cocksie
Hallidays of Northowram, Roberts of Hovingham, Stampers of Kirkdale, Cocks of Mary Tavy Devon, Cocks of Redruth Cornwall, Manser of Sussex, Axel of East Sussex, Palmer of East Sussex, Hermitage of Sussex, Smale of Kent, Haddon of Devon, Cuthill of Kinross-shire, Lynn of Ireland, Seymour of Cork

Offline Peter L. Mitchell

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Re: Huguenot or not Huguenot
« Reply #39 on: Saturday 26 October 19 06:42 BST (UK) »
Initial clue was Ancestry, although I don't have much confidence in the entries because I've found too many people who don't check their information.

A familysearch check of William Menere in 1804 turned up a reference to Joseph Menere born 1770 in France and died May 30 1847 at 10 Adams Street, Marylebone, London, England. A cross-check in Ancestry matched that information.

Further familysearch check of Joseph Maniere showed his marriage at aged 26 to Toinette Lacombe (aged 24) at Terrasson-Lavilledieu, Sarlat, Dordogne, Aquitaines, France. Date given as 7 lvos 4 (not sure when that is - can't read French). Joseph's parents named as Charles Maniere and Francoise Touron. Toinette's parents named as Pierre Lacombe and Toinette Dumond. This search also had access to the original document.

Further Ancestry search showed Bishop's Transcript record: Joseph Menere birth date about 1770; death date about 1847; burial date 3 June 1847; burial place All Souls, Kensal, Green Kensington and Chelsea, England.

Death certificate bought from GRO confirmed these details.

Bishop's transcript records Joseph's second marriage in 1809 to Sarah Prickett. Joseph's surname recorded as Menarey. Marriage date (by Banns) was 13 April, 1809.

I haven't looked at Joseph's side of my family for several months; that's on my "to do" list. The best resource I've discovered is the GRO records. The biggest frustration is the different spelling of the surname so I hope the different ones I've put above help. Perhaps it might be worthwhile trying to find him in the French records?

Peter


Offline cocksie

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Re: Huguenot or not Huguenot
« Reply #40 on: Saturday 26 October 19 08:15 BST (UK) »
I’m with you and able to confirm everything you have on the Meneres back to Joseph’s marriage to Ms Prickett. Have info from Certs etc as well. Got stuck with Joseph, b. 1770, poss France ... years ago and gave up after some searches in france throwing up a few possibilities that seemed impossible to connect quantifiable with the Jospeh I was looking for.
However, with regard to Joseph and Toinette... I had found this marriage but then drew a blank, was hoping to find offspring of this couple or Toinettes death or something - came away with a blank.
I don’t have everything/documents immediately handy ..so can’t remember clearly right now if Joseph was listed as a widower in relation to his marriage to Ms Prickett......which might have been why I was looking for Toinettes death ..... another Joseph Menere, b 1768 in same area in France married, procreated and clearly stayed in france so I was able to scrub that one off my list of possibilities....
Jenny
Hallidays of Northowram, Roberts of Hovingham, Stampers of Kirkdale, Cocks of Mary Tavy Devon, Cocks of Redruth Cornwall, Manser of Sussex, Axel of East Sussex, Palmer of East Sussex, Hermitage of Sussex, Smale of Kent, Haddon of Devon, Cuthill of Kinross-shire, Lynn of Ireland, Seymour of Cork

Offline Peter L. Mitchell

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Re: Huguenot or not Huguenot
« Reply #41 on: Saturday 26 October 19 13:06 BST (UK) »
Hi again, Jenny.

Just did another FamilySearch check on Joseph and found some additional information:

Joseph Francois Maniere Fils
France, Paris, Identity Cards, 1792 - 1795

Name:                              Joseph Francois Manier Fils
Event Type:                      Residence
Event Date:                      6 Sept 1793
Event Place:                      Paris, Seine, France
Event Place (Original):       Paris, France
Address:                           Rue Chateaulandon 13
Last Place of Residence:     Aux Invalides
Age:                                 23
Occupation:                      Sculpteur
Birth Year (Estimated):      1770
Birth Place:                       Paris
Arrival Date:                     sa naissance (His birth)
Arrival Place:                    Depuis sa naissance (Since his birth)
Note:                               Doit monter la G. attendu qu'il doit
                                       demeurer chez son pere sortant des
                                       Invalides avec sa pension
(Google Translation):        Must ride the G. wait that he must stay at his father leaving the Invalides
                                       with his pension
Box Number:                    F7/4792
EXT_ID:                           3212

Additional:

William James Menere's marriage (certificate) to Matilda Frances Mead on 20 March 1843 records his father, Joseph's, occupation as Gent. William's occupation is recorded as merchant tailor. Interestingly, the certificate shows the marriage solemnised between J Menere (not W Menere) and Matilda Mead. Marriage performed at Parish Church (Established Church), Cheltenham, Gloucester. Document signed by William Hawkins, Curate.

My mother sometimes told me that the Menere ancestor had to escape France following the Revolution, but I am not at all confident that this is accurate. She also believed he was Jewish, which might or might not be useful.

I've just done a quick search for 18th Century French sculptors and turned up nothing.

If I come across anything else that might be useful I'll post it.

Peter


Offline Peter L. Mitchell

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Re: Huguenot or not Huguenot
« Reply #42 on: Friday 28 February 20 10:42 GMT (UK) »
Corrections:

Joseph Menere's death certificate records that he died of cancer of the mouth (eight months), and his occupation is listed as servant.

Henri Menere died of asthenia, cardiac weakness and diarrhoea on September 27 1891. Occupation given as engineer.

Additional:

Henri was involved in three legal cases in Victoria (source: Public Records Office of Victoria. I went there today and read and photographed the documents):

Hearing 10 August 1872. Henri William Menere vs David Thomas; alleged assault - no verdict available.

29 January 1875 in the Supreme Court. McNally (Mathew) vs Menere. Plaintiff claimed 38 pounds for principal and interest due to him as drawer and holder of a bill of exchange. Decision in favour of plaintiff plus costs of five pounds. It appears that Henri borrowed 38 pounds from McNally, who was a chemist in Benalla (Victoria) and was unable to repay it.

7 December 1885 in the Supreme Court. Newman vs Menere. Plaintiff claimed 72 pounds 13 shillings and 11 pence plus 28 pounds 18 shillings interest plus 4 pounds 4 shillings for costs due to him as drawer and holder of a bill of exchange (money loaned on 1 October 1879). Newman ran an engineering firm in northern Victoria (still going, apparently) and he loaned the money to Henri. Decision in favour of the plaintiff.

In 1871 Henri approached the Victorian government with a design idea for an improved gun(artillery) carriage. He claims in a letter to the Argus newspaper that on September 7th 1870 he had mentioned the design and gave some details of it to a Mr. Lavater who was "engaged working with Captain Sheppard in working out the plans of the Moncrieff (gun carriage) . . ." Henri accused Lavater of stealing his designs, and the description he (Henri) gives suggests that he was well versed in engineering terminology. The outcome of the dispute is unclear, but Victorian government Hansard records show that Henri was granted 200 pounds to built a prototype, and that in 1872 he was drawing three pounds a week in extra funds from the government. The plan was to test the prototype to see if it was superior, but there are no records to indicate whether these tests were successful. If you Google "Menere Gun Carriage" you should find the sources I have quoted.

If I find any further information about Henri I will post it. I hope this helps someone!

Offline Peter L. Mitchell

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Re: Huguenot or not Huguenot
« Reply #43 on: Friday 28 February 20 10:43 GMT (UK) »
Text of letter written to the Argus by Henri Menere May 11 1871:

THE MENERE GUN CARRIAGE.
TO THE EDITOR OF THE ARGUS.
Sir,-In your issue of to-day I notice a
letter by Mr. Lavater concerning my gun-car-
riage, and containing assertions which he
must know to be utterly untrue. On Sep-
tember 7, 1870, while Mr. Lavater was en-
gaged with Captain Sheppard in working out
the plans of the Moncrieff, I showed him, at
the request of Colonel Anderson, my hy-
draulic gun-carriage. A few days later, in
the course of conversation with him, I told
him I had a gun-carriage on a new principle
(being my present invention), explaining
its principles to him in a friendly way,
believing him to be a man of honour,
upon which he at once seized my idea
to a certain extent, and thereupon ordered
a model to be quickly constructed by Beau-
champ Brothers, cabinetmakers, of Collins
street west, as he explained to them, he had
just got wind of a new idea. As to my refus-
ing to allow Mr. Lavater to inspect my model,
he did, by his own conduct in trying to pirate
my invention, give me a just reason for such
refusal - as I explained to the Defence Board
at their first meeting. I here most distinctly
and flatly deny that Mr. Lavater has any
claim whatever to a prior invention on my
principle. Now, as Mr. Lavater admits that
he has never inspected my gun-carriage, I
wish to know upon what grounds he com-
pares my invention with his own, Mon-
crieff's, or Captain Grant's? Such a com-
parison, under the circumstances, is most
unjust. A slight exposition of the prin-
ciples upon which I have worked, would
only be fair to those gentlemen who have
encouraged me, and just to myself. I
will plainly show there is a wide difference
between my carriage and that of Moncrieff.
The Moncrieff is built of boiler-plate iron ;
in my invention stout timber, strapped with
iron, is used in the construction. The im-
mense advantage of wood over iron as regards
quick repair is so well known that I need
not further comment. The Moncrieff is com-
posed of complex machinery and cogwheel
action ; mine is entirely divested of any ma-
chinery whatever, simply regulated by
counterpoise, and thrown into position by
two levers of a pressure of 150 pounds each.
The Moncrieff has only one action to utilise
recoil, while I have two distinct actions. The
Moncrieff has no traversing platform, the
carriage itself traversing ; on my principle
the carriage is distinct from the platform,
thereby at a moment's notice facilitating its
movement to any other position on the line
of pits. The Moncrieff is immovable from
the bed of masonry to which it is fixed ; my
carriage is moved to any position with
the same ease as a heavy field piece.
In the Moncrieff, saluting and battering
charges work its machinery to its full extent.
In mine it is so regulated that a saluting
charge lowers the gun from firing position, and
in a battering charge tho recoil is spent on
traversing platform. The Moncrieff requires
heavy masonry to sustain the shock of recoil,
which is one of the causes of its failure. My
carriage requires no masonry whatever for
the traversing platform to work upon. I
maintain further, in reply to Mr. Lavater,
that by advocating a deep pit, and producing
a machine for the working of a gun in that
pit, I gain the object Moncrieff laboured in
vain to achieve, viz , the protection of 5ft. or
more of cover for the men. As to the experi-
ments Mr. Lavater suggests, all I desire is
that practical effcct shall be given to what I
have laboured long and earnestly to bring to
perfection, but which can only be brought
about by the assistance of our Government,
before whom my inventions are being dis-
cussed. In conclusion, Sir, the Defence
Board pronounce my invention as containing
merit, and recommend the Government to
call for tenders for the construction of a
sample gun-carriage according to my plans,
if such a one be required for the defences.
I am, Sir, yours truly,
May 11 1871. HENRI WM. MENERE.

Offline Peter L. Mitchell

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Re: Huguenot or not Huguenot
« Reply #44 on: Friday 28 February 20 23:31 GMT (UK) »
Search of Trove results for Menere. Lots of very interesting information in these newspaper reports and articles.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=Menere