wow thankyou, so do you think he was a locksmiths son?? or was that who he broke in to, on one of the records i have it has him as errand boy, maybe he was an errand boy for a locksmith and used his knowledge to break into a house??? interesting... so how would i get hold of the marriage cert from aus??? cos that would no doubt hold more info, thanks again for reading the text i couldnt read half of it well done, ps do you think it states that his native place was plymouth? there is plymouth stafford and salop now mmmm where was he born??? i will keep looking.