hi, need help again

[lizdb]

I think you are clutching at a very thin, possibly non existant straw here.

What makes you think that this William and Harriet Phillips (not exactly an unusual name) with their sons George and William, are the same people as a Thomas and Harriett Phillips who have a son, Joseph?
Do you have other evidence?

If not I would forget this family for the time being, and go back to finding your Thomas, Harriett and Joseph on the censuses

[Cathymjp]

Hi Nicky

I have been searching the 1891 census but cannot find your family on them.  Do you know what district they were living in  on that census? 

Cathy

Modification 7.00pm.

Nicky I have found the same census return as Jackie - However I think that the Head of the family should be Thomas not William.  This would be more in line with the details you have.  I have followed the family back to 1861 but cannot find a Joseph listed, there is however a John aged 9 in 1871, RG10/2830.  They seem to have had a lot of children.  They are living in the early census returns at Chapel Chorlton.

[PaulineJ]

Is there ANY sighting after 1871?
Could this be why if not?
DEATHS JUN 1876
Joseph Philips     age-at-death 18y     Ashbourne     Derbyshire, Staffordshire     

Pauline

[Cathymjp]

Hi Pauline, if i understand the original information correctly, Joseph had two children Harriet and Thomas.  I understand that Thomas was born in 1881.  I too thought that perhaps he may have died but Harriet was born in 1877.  I cannot find Joseph anywhere at the moment or the birth of the two children - a bit of a mystery.

Cathy

[NickyUK]

thankyou for your help.  I am very grateful.

When I had access to ancestry I traced right from when Thomas Phillps lived with his father and mother.  I followed the trace and compared names and dates with transcripts that were sent to me by a relative.  I found that all my names proved to be correct.   In the transcripts they state that someone moved to Normanton, and it appears that these two children were born there.

I have looked at my notes and Joseph had a middle name of William. I think perhaps william age 32 could be Joseph. 

I belive this is my family because the head of the family down as william (which I too think should of been thomas) WAS born Maer staffordshire.   Son george was also born Maer staffordshire. 

I think am not going to get much further than this.

regards

Nicky

[lizdb]

Do any locals know what registation district Normanton comes under?
If it is Bradford, then these could be the births of the two children:

Jul/Aug/Sep 1877 Harriet Phillips Bradford area 9b 86

Jul/AugSep 1880 Thomas Phillips Bradford area 9b 216

Getting their birth certs ( or looking at parish records for Normanton for christenings) would confirm their parentage. As I see it, there is still no evidence they are Joseph's children.

[PaulineJ]

Normanton would be Wakey..

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/REG/districts/wakefield.html

Pauline

[lizdb]

Looked full birth indexes 1876/77/78
no Harriet Phillips registered in  wakefield area.
(only looked Phillips with 2 'l's')

[NickyUK]

well.. I think I have solved some of the mystery.

sometime ago I emailed someone on ancestry as they had a Thomas phillips in there tree 1852... with the same area of one of my thomas's.  My thomas was born to Thomas and Harriet also. (Harriets maiden name is Owen)  Anyhow.. turns out it's the same Thomas.. but... this thomas born in 1852 also had a son called Thomas who was born 1881 in NORMANTON Yorkshire. His full name is Thomas Owen PHillips  There is no Harriet on the tree.  I got so confused with the whole situation I am now beginging to question why I thought thomas and harriet were Josephs children.   I think they are actually Thomas's children.