I can't find my Grandad - no birth?

[RustyFairy]

I am a member of Ancestry and have managed to trace quite a way back in some branches of my family tree but I am stuck at my Grandad.
My father is dead, I have my Grandad's marriage certificate and death certificate found in a box of old photographs but I can't find his birth at all.

He was Henry Robinson, father was Joseph Robinson and his death certificate says that he was born 27th January 1897 in Staleybridge

I have found a 4 year old Harry Robinson on a census for 1901 but that's it. I don't know if he was ever called Harry and have no family on my father's side to help me.

There is a connection with his work and Staleybridge, the firm he worked for (Sumners steel) moved to a new plant in Garden City, North Wales where he died so I have no reason to believe that he wasn't born there.

Is it possible that his birth wasn't registered?

[Roobarb]

There are a couple of Henry Robinsons aged 4 on the 1901 census with father Joseph. One was born in Manchester, father was a Grocer/Postmaster and mother was named Mary. The other was born in Garstang, father was a Coal Miner/Hewer and mother was named Grace. Do you have Joseph's occupation from Henry's marriage cert?

[Josephine]

Hi, RustyFairy!

I agree with Roobarb's question re. the father's occupation.  Also, who were the witnesses to the marriage, in case they might have been family members who might be identified in the census?

Regards,
Josephine

[cheshiremog]

Dear Rusty,

you have two choices.
1. Harry Robinson b. Q1 1897 Stockport Reference 8a 36.
2. Henry Robinson b. Q1 1897 Lancaster Reference 8e 757.

You need to apply for these birth certificates from the record centre at the GRO at Southport in Merseyside and hope that one or the other has the correct birth date. Otherwise you're stuffed. There must have been some strange family secret. It wasn't uncommon for families to have sudden name changes or more than one marriage/non-marriage family arrangement.
Just as an instant, my wife's Grandfather had  Fifteen ( 15) children by three partners of whom he was married to only the first one. In those days you could not get divorced except by Parliamentary decree.
As an example of name change, I recently looked up a name for a friend and they changed the family name from Haslam to Purdy. Who will ever know why? THEY CERTAINLY DIDN'T.

[trish251]

The occupation on the marriage certificate could help to tie down which may be the correct birth (& lead to 1 certificate rather than 2!). Henry/Harry are very interchangeable names & he could well have been baptised with one and used the other or vice versa   

You can also specify the date to be checked when ordering the certificate & although it costs a little more, this can avoid having to buy 2 certificates.

Stalybridge is listed as in the district of Ashton under Lyne 1894-1937

Trish

Edit: Just realised this is your first post RustyFairy - a warm welcome to RootsChat

[RustyFairy]

Thank you for all of your suggestions, I have tried those birth certificates but I don't think any of them were my family, I even tried a Henry/Joseph from Morcambe.

I didn't think to check the witnesses so thank you for that.
Joseph Robinson is described as a steelworker, so it's possible that they both moved to work in Garden City or that the family moved when the children were young, I need to check the 1901 census for Garden City in case they are there and not Manchester. It could be that my father was wrong in his belief that Grandad was born in Staleybridge

One of the witnesses was called Sybil Robinson, so a sister or sister in law possibly to Henry
The other witness is so badly written that I can't make it out, it could be anything from Creft to Scott!

[MarieC]

Hi Rusty Fairy

And welcome!

If you would like to scan the certificate, people here would take a look at the names for you and try to decipher the hard-to-read one!

MarieC

[Josephine]

What about the family in Failsworth, North Manchester, Lancashire?

The father, Joseph Robinson, 49, is a foreman blacksmith.  Could steelworker be another way of saying blacksmith?

The son, Henry, is 9, though, and born in Moston.

What could be other terms for steelworker?

Regards,
Josephine

[Josephine]

RustyFairy,

Do you have any cousins who might know more?

Do you have any family photos with names of your grandfather's siblings, etc?

Do you have any other official documents for your grandfather, such as military records?

Regards,
Josephine