1841 census lookup for Barham

[montagu_griffin]

Hello Helenna, I'm a Montagu descended from the first Earl of Manchester.  I've seen your query re. Henry Graham Montagu.  This could be a complete red herring but one of my ancestors George Conway Courtenay Montagu (b.1776 d. 1847) of Lackham House, Wiltshire may have had 2 illegitimate children by two servants.  These children were sent (with their mothers) to the work house.  I came across this information on the internet posted by Tony Pratt who was researching the Montagu family at Lackham.  I wonder if there could be any link?

[helenna]

To Montagu_Griffin,
Many thanks for replying. 
My Henry Grahame Montagu always puts his place of birth as  1839 Bridge, Nr Canterbury, Kent.
Also we have just been told of cousins he had in that area, so I dont really think he is one of those children, because of the location.
However, I do think that his beginnings are something like that.

Thanks Helenna

[helenna]

to Barbara,

Hello Helenna
Really am stuck on this one!
I believe The King's School has an archivist so it may be worth sending an email.
The London family is also a bit of a mystery - can't find them in a later census and can only find one birth reg of the youngest child (Herbert) who died young. I did wonder whether there were French connections because of the children's names -Blanche, Eugene.
Have you checked the parish registers for Bridge?
Barbara

Hello Barbara,
Many thanks for the above. I will have to check the parish registers for Bridge etc.  This Montagu is a mystery, I do believe that he was illegitimate. Now to find out where he was before he was 17yrs old. He had a good education feel sure and to his credit made sure his children did as well.
I did send an email confirming that the above Monatgu wasnt mine, but a great character.
Margaret

[helenna]

Hello Helenna, I'm a Montagu descended from the first Earl of Manchester.  I've seen your query re. Henry Graham Montagu.  This could be a complete red herring but one of my ancestors George Conway Courtenay Montagu (b.1776 d. 1847) of Lackham House, Wiltshire may have had 2 illegitimate children by two servants.  These children were sent (with their mothers) to the work house.  I came across this information on the internet posted by Tony Pratt who was researching the Montagu family at Lackham.  I wonder if there could be any link?

Not to sure if I have got this right as I did send a reply a short time ago, so hope you got it.
Nice to hear from another Montagu.
Helenna

[montagu_griffin]

Hi Helenna, thanks for getting back to me... I thought it was probably a long shot.  Best of luck in the search for Henry's origins!

[casalguidi]

Hi Helenna

I've been thinking about this again

Being as Henry first turns up (for certain) in a census in Walcot, Somersetshire, I had a look at other Kent born people in Walcot and noticed the following:

1851 28 New King Street, Walcot, Somerset

Elizabeth H ATCHERLEY head wid 35 annuitant b.France (British Subject)
Henry M son 15 scholar at home b.Canterbury

HO107/1943 folio 183 page 13

Who are they I wonder?  I couldn't spot them in 1841 to try and eliminate them
...................................................

I also found the following family in Walcot in 1851:

15 Marlborough Buildings, Walcot

Frances M PAPPILLON head mar 46 husband a landed proprietor b.Barham Kent
Mary G(raham) dau unm 23 b.Barham Kent
Thomas M son unm 22 b.Barham
Emily G dau unm 18 b.Barham
Margaret A dau unm 11 b.Barham
Lila M(atilda) dau 8 b.Barham
David son 8 b.Barham
Florence dau 5 b.Bath Somerset
+ some servants

HO107/1943 folio 2*8? page 4*?

A few co-incidences there don't you think?

Digging around a bit more, the parents were Thomas PAPILLON and Frances Margaret OXENDEN.  A licence was granted 6 Sep 1825 for them to marry at Barham in Kent.  Thomas PAPILLON was a bachelor of Acrise aged 22 and Frances was of Barham.

Frances Margaret OXENDEN was the daughter of Henry OXENDEN and Mary GRAHAM.  From what I can make out, Frances Margaret OXENDEN had several siblings including the Rev. Montague OXENDEN.  These were very prominent families and loads of references to them can be found on the net by googling etc..

Hope I've not confused the issue too much more

Can't see anything linking them to the TASSELL family as yet though

Casalguidi

[helenna]

Hi Casalguidi,
Many thanks for the further information you have sent me. Isnt that interesting the link between Bath and Barham? Also the name Lilla, which sems to have some significants. On all the documents I have managed to get e.g. marriages deaths etc. he always puts b. Nr Canterbury it isnt until the 1901 census he puts born at Bridge? Have to admit I am at that stage at the moment where I feel like giving up as do several of us descendants who are doing this research.He did have money as to give him his due he made sure his children (nearly all 19 of them) had a good start in life. One thing I have just found out was that people who tried to find out where he came from were warned off??Also another of my half relatives said she was told not to go down that avenue as she could regret it. The mystery deepens. Sorry for rambling really do appreciate your interest and when its all solved I promise I will let you know,In the meantime will look into the info you have just let me have.

Thanks
Helenna

[helenna]

hi Casalguidi,

P.S.

Henry was resident at 17, Hatfield Buildings from 1870/1-1872.  Which is interesting.

Helenna

[Gypsy97]

Hi Helena
I have a Henry G Montague (b)abt 1829, found in 1861 census with Emma & children, Henry, Emma, Eugene & Grace. Eugene was my grandfather & I know he came to Australia in 1888, the year he was marrried. Emma married James Clinton Bishop 1880. Grace M died 1860. I cannot find this family in other census records. There is a Henry Graham Montague in the Times newspaper in 1852 as going to court & he was already in prison for debt. Little Grace M had written on her parish register death record, illegitimate, so the others must be as well, as she was the last born.
I dont know if we are looking for the same H G Montague but it is worth a try as I am not able to find anything else.
Denise