Thomas Wills - 1841 & 1851 census - COMPLETED

[Emmeline]

Forgot to say Bryant that William Thomas was born 1850 in Thames Ditton - Surrey.

Every little helps they say........  thank you.

[Bryant]

Hello Emmeline

So, this is his mum and a couple of siblings........in 1841
ANN PARMENTER MOSS? (only option on freebmd!) aged 1 appears to have been born in the registration district of Chelmsford (includes Bradwell) in the Dec qtr of 1839..........is Ann the daughter of an elder brother of John William Moss? if so who is he?

1841
QUUEN HEAD ROAD, BRADWELL near the sea, ESSEX
AMELIA MOSS  50                     Y
GEORGE    "      8                       Y
ANN           "      1                      Y
JOHN WHITE     9                      Y
--------------------------

[Bryant]

Looking in from outside..............

John William Moss married Elizabeth at Marylebone because that is where her family resided! they then moved back to Surrey as that is where John worked!

who are the witnesses at the marriage in 1850........?

I gather you only know that Thomas Wills is aged 35+ in 1841?

Where are John William Moss/Elizabeth and William Thomas in 1861 and what ages are they?

Bryant

[Emmeline]

Hello Bryant

The witnesses at the wedding were G.Banfield and A.M. Flack.

Flack was Amelia Moss's maiden name. I have the names of her siblings and there is no A.M. amongst them that I can find.

As far as I can find my John William had only sisters - no brother. They were all christened June 1823 Bradwell Nr the Sea.

On the 1841 census you gave me there is a John White Moss - his mother on IGI is shown as Mary so I don't know who he belongs to !

I only know (through a family link) that John William was shown as 41 yrs on the 1861 census and living in Westminster. Still living in Westminster in 1871 ( working at the India Stores Depot.)

Amelia Moss died 1855 and I received her death cert.today. No clues there I'm afraid about any other Moss.

I only have Thomas Wills on the marriage lines and was hoping to make a start with that.

Please let's know if I can tell you any more.  Thanks for your interest....

[Bryant]

Sorry

The ditto was a slip of the finger ie JOHN WHITE aged 9 is not a Moss! and if you believe that / denotes partition of the house and // denotes a different house...........a JOHN WHITE aged 30 lives next door, so the Moss's for whatever reason are looking after the motherless child?

In that same census for 1841 their is GEORGE MOSS aged 8 .............. on the IGI's their is a GEORGE GRIGGS MOSS christianed 6th January 1833 at Bradwell on Sea... and he has a mother named ANN MOSS ............... which is a perfect match for George found in the household of Amelia Moss!............is Amelia Moss and Ann Moss the same person?
I also note that in 1808 a JOHN MOSS married a ELIZABETH GRIGGS

Who registered Amelia's death in 1855?

1861
23 TOTHILL STREET, ST MARGARETS, WESTMINSTER, MIDDLESEX
John W Moss  head  41  bricklayers labourer   Essex
Elizabeth  "     wife    43 charwoman                Middlesex
John         "      son     9                                          "
Hannah    "      daur    5                                     Westminster, Middx
Elizabeth  "        "       3                                     London, Middx
Thomas    "      son     1                                           "
------------------------

1871
11 GREAT SMITH STREET, ST MARGARET, WESTMINSTER, LONDON, MIDDX
John W Moss  head  57 leading mans India stores depot, Lambeth       BRADWELL, ESSEX
Elizabeth  "     wife   53  charwoman                                                       Fulham, Middlesex
John         "      son   19  fishmonger                                                      St Catherines, London
Elizabeth  "     daur   10?                                                                                    "
Anna         "        "      8                                                                          Westminster, Middx
-------------------

I think this is possibly your Elizabeth Wills in 1841 but difficult to prove!

1841
PRINCESS STREET, MARYLEBONE, ST MARYLEBONE, MIDDLESEX
THOMAS CORK  35  SHOE M                Y
MARY ANN  "      30                              Y
CHARLES    "      15                              Y
SARAH        "       10                             Y
JAMES CORK        5                               Y
HENRY      "          3                              Y
/
HENRY WALKER  30                             Y
ANN           "        30                            Y
JAMES        "         2                             Y
/
BETSY RUNDALL   25                            Y
WILLIAM    "         30  NK                      Y
JOSEPH      "         6                              Y         
/
ELIZABETH WILLS  20                         Y (born in county)
/
CHARLES D...........  20  NK                   Y
/
WILLIAM FLETCHER  30  CARPENTER    Y
ANNA              "        30                         Y
//
--------------------

the 1851 isn't available to me but as they married in 1850, hopefully some kind person might be able to find them with the info provided?

and a pure guess as for Thomas Wills..........
1841
RUSSELL MEWS, ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY, FINSBURY, MIDDX
THOMAS WILLS  45  MALE SERVANT    N
ANN          "        45                             N
THOMAS    "        20                             Y
MARY         "        20                             Y
---------------
1841 rule applies ie 20-24=20, 45-49=45 etc

Bryant
   

[Emmeline]

Hello Bryant - Thank you for all the extra things you have been able to tell me.

Just shows how a small ditto can cause sometimes cause confusion.

Daughter of  John & Elizabeth - Anna -  was my Gt.Grandma - always known as Annie.

Yes, Elizabeth Wills in the 1841 seems quite a possibility - was she the only one in household ? Thanks for reminding me of the 1841 age rule.

Re the informant for Amelia - X The mark of Elizabeth Coot.

As to whether she is Amelia/Ann I now have something else to think about.

Do appreciate you doing all this for me Bryant - I send you kind regards........

[Emmeline]

Hi Bryant - just an afterthought:-

There is one other christening for a Sarah Ann Moss - child of Amelia & John Moss - Oct 1814 Bradwell Nr the Sea.

Amelia & John married 1805 - perhaps they took a long time in have the children christened.

Perhaps SAM is the mother of George 1841 ?

[Bryant]

The details of whom Elizabeth Wills was living with has been added to the original info/reply..............

Elizabeth Coote (the informant of Amelia's death) lived next door to Amelia Moss in 1841............Elizabeth appears to be Amelia's sister in law/the sister of John Moss!

JOHN COOTE married ELIZABETH MOSS on the 13th October 1809 at Bradwell near the Sea.

1841
QUEENS HEAD ROAD, BRADWELL
JOHN COOTE  50                 Y
ELIZABETH "   55                 Y
MARY          "   15                 Y
SARAH        "   9                   Y
ELIZA MYALL   5                   Y
--------------------

Remember little JOHN WHITE aged 9 on the 1841 census..........well he was the son of John White who lived next door.........John White (sen) was married to Mary Moss (daughter of John & Amelia Moss?)...........Mary Moss probably died, childbirth being a strong candidate for her demise?
John White c. 30th Oct 1831 Bradwell near the sea...parents John White & Mary Moss...............

Sarah Ann Moss c. 15th Oct 1814...........John & Amelia
Emma Ann    "     c.22nd Jun 1823               "         "
Harriet          "     c.    "         "                      "         "
John              "     c. 24th Jun 1823              "         "

*as John & Amelia married in 1805.....it leads you to believe that their might well have been quite a few more children? and in 1823 they decided to christian those that remained or hadn't been christened when they was born?

Sarah Ann Moss married William Douce in Dec 1835........Bradwell

1841
Hall cottage, St Lawrence Newland, Essex
William Duce  39  ag lab                 y
Sarah Ann "   20                             y
William      "    6                              y
Jane          "    8                              y
*William aged 6 appears before Jane aged 8..........is that male before female or is Jane the child from a previous marriage as they didn't marry until 1835.

1861
Asheldham, Essex
John Akers              head                48  (wid) ag lab    Tillingham, Essex
Sarah Ann Duce  housekeeper        41 (wid)                Bradwell,    "
William Akers            son                 14                          Asheldham, "
John        "                 "                     9                                   "
Susan      "               daur                 6                                   "
Daniel Flack           lodger                 60 (m) groom        Tillingham,   "
-------------------
*why does the lodger create interest 

Time to move on 
Bryant

[Emmeline]

Hello Bryant - You are not only a Wizard but a Gentleman into the bargain.

Very many thanks for all the information.

Fancy Elizabeth Coot/e being Amelia's sister-in law. It's amazing where one little question has led and I thank you again.

Another little co-incidence - I search all the time for someone by the surname of Myal. He was the first husband of my Gt.Gt.Grandma ( London ) but with all the derivations  on that name it has been difficult to find anything.

However, I persevere and with the help of kind people such as yourself  it is made much easier ...........