Neil & Barbara McBride - 1841 & 1851 somewhere in Scotland

[sesd]

At least I am not looking for John Stewart or Agnes Robertson.

I am searching for a family who emigrated to Canada around 1861.

I have searched the IGI and freecen, but have found no possible candidates. The only clues I have are that their McBride neighbours in Canada came from Argyle, so that is one possibility.

Neil McBride died before the 1861 census of Dunwich twp., Elgin co., Ontario.
His widow and children appeared thus on that census:

Barbara McBride   / F / age 52 / born Scotland / FC(Free church)/ Farmer / Widow   
Mary McBride / F / age 24 / born Scotland / FC
John McBride / M / age 14 / born Scotland / FC / in school
Catherine McBride / F / age 17 / born Scotland / FC

Can anyone find this family before their immigration? Can you give me some ideas where I might look?

Sharon Stewart Duff

[mike175]

Hi,
Here's a list of all the Neil McBrides cut and pasted from the Scotland 1851 census:

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Not very promising, but I'll be happy to look up further information on any of them if you think there may be a connection.

Mike.

[sesd]

Thanks Mike,
This one looks like a possibility, to me:

Neil McBride Barbara abt 1797  Campbleton, Argyle  Head  Campbeltown  Argyll


Sharon 

[mike175]

That was my first thought, but I'm not so sure now. Neil and Barbara seem to have had a son Neil 14 in 1851, and in 1841 Barbara was living alone with sons Neil 4, and Charles 11. No mention of the children you listed from the 1861 census.

The only positive thing is that they don't seem to be in Scotland after 1851.

Mike.

[MonicaL]

Hi Sharon and Mike

From IGI, these look to be some of the children for Neil McBride and Barbara MORRISON ( married/banns on 24 JUN 1824 Campbeltown, Argyll, Scotland):

1. MARGARET MCBRIDE Birth: 25 SEP 1827/ Christening: 27 SEP 1827 Campbeltown, Argyll, Scotland
2. CHARLES MCBRIDE Birth: 31 JAN 1830/ Christening: 03 FEB 1830 Campbeltown, Argyll, Scotland
3. NEILL MCBRIDE   Birth: 18 APR 1836/ Christening: 20 APR 1836 Campbeltown, Argyll, Scotland

There is also one more couple with those names, Barbara's maiden name THOMSON:

JOHN MCBRYDE  Birth: 12 JAN 1842/ Christening: 28 JAN 1842 South Knapdale, Argyll, Scotland

Regards.

Monica

Added: There is a death on Scotlands People for a Barbara Morrison/McBride which might be connected to the first couple. If you decide to view it Sharon, it would help you at least exclude this couple, if it is the correct death entry:

1858   MCBRIDE   BARBARA       MORRISON   F   63   PARTICK   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   646/02 0114

No deaths show for a Barbara Thomson/McBride in Scotland.

[sesd]

Thanks Monica,

Barbara McBride's ages in Canada on the censuses and her death record, make her born about 1809, which would make her rather young to be Barbara MORRISON married in 1824. She died in Manitoba in 1887 at the age of 77.

I hadn't come across Barbara Thompson. The John you cite would be too old to be son John in Canada, but it would not be surprising if the Canadian John was a replacement for an earlier son with the same name.

Since they were Free Kirk in Canada, they may not have had baptisms recorded in the established church, But I had hoped that the census records might show them up. 

Maybe focussing on South Knapdale, Argyleshire would be worth it. Perhaps their census records don't have the correct names. I have seen that happen more than once.

Sharon

[mike175]

Hi Sharon,

Just had a quick look through the 1841/51 censuses for South Knapdale and couldn't find any McBrides or McBrydes at all.

Don't suppose it's relevant, but the nearest (in 1851) were Niel & Barbara Brodie born c.1798  & c.1795 respectively. Their children were Mary 16, Jane 14, Dugald 10, Catharine 7, John 5, & Lillias 1 Mth.

Good luck with the search.

Mike.

[MonicaL]

Well spotted Mike  - that Brodie family is a good possibility.

Sharon, this is the 1851 entry for that family. Everyone showing as born in South Knapdale apart from Barbara:

Niel Brodie    53, agri. lab. b.
Barbara Brodie    46, b. Glassary, Argyll
Mary Brodie    16
Jane Brodie    14
Dugald Brodie    10
Catharine Brodie 7
John Brodie    5
Lillias Brodie    1 Mo
John Brodie    65, brother, agri. lab.

Address: Baileyerzagan Cottage, South Knapdale

Pretty close match on ages for children Mary, Catherine and John in the 1861 Census in Canada.

Regards.

Monica

ADDED: Neil Brody and Barbara McTavish's children show in IGI under Brody. Hard to say whether Brody became McBride - not a standard variant of the name 

Cannot see any other couple on the 1841 census that makes some connection - we should at least be able to find daughter Mary on that one....and I can't so far.

[JAP]

I've been admiring the way you worked out this puzzle, Mike and Monica.  Fascinating stuff!

There's a Mary b 1834 to Neill MCBRIDE & Effie MCTAVISH.  She's possibly/probably the Mary aged 16 in the 1851 and 24 in the 1861.  But is Effie the same as Barbara or might she be an earlier wife?

There's a likely 1841 household but with a few discrepancies:
SCT1841/533/6/6/1
Clachbreck, South Knapdale
All BRODIE - all b Argyllshire
John 45  Ag Lab
Niel 40  Ag Lab
Catherine 80
Mary 30
Mary 6
Jean 4
Dugald 1
Discrepancies:
John 45 (if it's the same John) is listed as 65 in the 1851?
Is Mary, 30, the same as Barbara?  Compare age (rounded down) with Barbara's 46 in 1851, 52 in 1861, and 77 at death in 1887.  Or was Barbara elsewhere on census night?

Summing up the births:
All South Knapdale.  Ages in 1841, 1851 and 1861 appended.
Neill MCBRIDE/Effie MCTAVISH
Mary b Oct 1834, bap 9 Feb 1835        6, 16, 24

Niel BRODY/Barbara MACTAVISH
Jean b 17 Apr, bap 1 May 1837            4, 14, -

Neill BRODIE/Barbara MCTAVISH
Dougald b 18 Aug, bap 22 Aug 1839      1, 10, -

Niel MCBRYDE/Barbara THOMSON
John b 12 Jan, bap 18 Jan 1842            -

Niel BRODDIE/Barbara MCTAVISH
Catherine b 1 Mar, bap 30 Mar 1843      -, 7, 17       

Niel BRODIE/Barbara THOMSON
John b 2 Dec 1845, bap 18 Apr 1846      -, 5, 14

?
Lilias b ca Feb 1851                           1m, -, -

Sharon, perhaps looking at the actual OPR entries for the births/baptisms might help?  Either through ScotlandsPeople or (cheaper!) ordering in the relevant film to your local LDS Family History Centre.

JAP