Rochdale Cemetery request

[Gillg]

Incidentally, Tony, the Grant Numbers for the other two were as follows:

Elizabeth, Herbert, Thomas, Arthur, Robert, Betty (nee Butterworth), Sarah Ann and John Hurst.  Grave purchased by John Hurst, woolsorter, of Kenion Street,  26th May 1860 for £3.10 - Grant No. 1596.

All those Adamsons.  Grave purchased by Robert Adamson, grocer, of East Street. 15th August 1859 for 12 guineas - Grant No. 1393.

Here's hoping we can read some at least of the other Hurst grave record. 

In the mean time, I've been looking at Genes Reunited and am appalled at the number of Betty and Benjamin Butterworths from Rochdale on there 

Don't know the significance of the term "Grant".

Regards,

Gill

[Gillg]

Update on the Hurst-Blackwell connection from a Blackwell researcher.

Not only did John Hurst marry Elizabeth Blackwell, but his cousin Albert Hurst married Elizabeth's niece.     Albert's father was Benjamin 1815, younger brother of John's father Thomas 1803 (are you with me so far?).  I've since found Benjamin's christening in an extracted record on the IGI, same church, same parents as my Thomas.   Don't want to add to the confusion, but Benjamin Hurst lived in the Butterworth district of Rochdale (remember, Neal found a Benjamin Hurst on Interment.com, but it doesn't seem to be the right one from his age).

There are also Butterworths in the Blackwell family somewhere......and Cleggs.  Didn't you find a Clegg grave on the
Butterworth/Hurst/Tweedale/Warburton site, Tony? 

Gill

[tony h]

Is all this legal
Yes you have a Clegg in the family plot but no headstone as i recall, i'll check the photos when i'm home.

Best wishes
Tony

[Gillg]

Just checking my prayerbook for the bit that says "Thou shalt not marry thy wife's sister......", but I think, hope so 

Gill

[tony h]

Hi Gill,
Am attaching the sketch Andrea did of the relationship of the graves. Cleggs are bottom right.

On another but related topic what info will i get from Rochdale local studies armed with a name and grave number or am i better going to the Cem.

Best wishes

Tony

[Gillg]

Tony

Thank you for this.  They really did their best for you at the cemetery office, didn't they?  It's difficult to say which is the better route to find a grave. If you look at the cemetery website, they are supposed to charge you £23 to look up the graves for you, and I have heard from someone else, who was given one free go, as she wasn't aware of the charges, but was told she would have to pay £25 next time.  I'm not sure if their search includes supplying copies of the records, but I should think so.  Also I don't know if there is any difference in cost if you are calling personally at the office or writing to them.

Rochdale Local Studies, on the other hand, charged me £4 for finding, photocopying and posting 2 sets of grave records (2 pages each).  And they do this usually within a couple of days.  I suppose if you went in personally it could cost even less.  I wrote to them with all the Hurst names, dates of birth and death and relationships, but in the case of the Adamsons, I only had the patriarch and his wife's details, and that didn't make much difference, as they still found the grave. 

Obviously you charmed Andrea into finding the graves gratis at least I hope so, as you haven't informed me of any costs.  And quite apart from your personal magnetism, you did have the references already, so didn't need help on that score.

Sorry, I'm not sure which is the best way for you.  I didn't have grave or grant numbers at first, but the grave was found through the family names and burial dates.  I don't know whether their records are filed according to name, date, grant number or grave number, but they can probably be found any way, if they've been entered on computer as well as filmed.

Regards,

Gill 

[Dale]

I don't want to put a spanner in the works but aren't there rules ?
I'm sure  have read somewhere that Y persons can be buried in a grave providing there is at least X years between burials or something similar???

Might that explain some of the burials?
Arohanui
Marlene

[Gillg]

Hi Marlene

Just searching around the net and have found this

Exclusive Right of Burial – Reserving a particular grave space for yourself or your family

4.   Before any burial may take place in a grave, an ‘exclusive right of burial’ must be purchased from the Council.  Additionally, for any burial or any other opening of the ground an Interment fee must be paid.
 

5.   In order to reserve a specific grave (or pair of adjacent graves) for him/her self and members of his/her self family, an ‘exclusive right’ may be brought in advance whereupon a legally enforceable deed will be drawn up reserving the specified plot(s) for a first internment up to 75 years into the future.  If the right has not been exercised by the end of the 75 year period and the grave remains vacant, the Council will be entitled to resell the exclusive right to someone else.

6.   The owner of an unexpired ‘exclusive right of burial’ may not sell, will, convey, assign or transfer the right without the written permission of the Council being first obtained and paying the administrative and legal fees, but may use the grave space to bury members of his/her immediate family (e.g. spouse/partner, parent, brother, sister or child).

and

The Council may, with the agreement of the persons arranging in interment,
permit the re-use of a grave which is not a purchased grave or which is a grave in
respect of which the exclusive right of burial has expired notwithstanding the body to be
interred therein is not connected in any way with the previous interments.

These are from two different cemeteries, but of course they are current regulations, and may well have changed over the last hundred years or so.  So there seems to be a 75 year lifespan for a grave (bit of a contradiction there  ), but whether this means the first occupants have to be moved out before new ones take over, I don't know.  Surely not - it would be a full-time occupation for the gravediggers, and what would they do with the older bodies? Start a charnel house??? Exhumations have a similar list of regulations.

Cheers,

Gill

[Dale]

Hi Gill
Here's one of the sites I found which gives some explanation!
http://www.beckettstreetcemetery.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=1
In the 1940s I have 2 sisters buried together and then the husband of one died in  1974 he was also buried there. I think the limit was 3 but there was 12/14 year gap necessary. I'll try to find the details!
Cheers
Marlene