1851 census Manchester, Ancoats area

[Lawson]

Hi, looking for John Garvey who would have been about 7/8 in 1851.  His mother was called Ellen and I think his father was Patrick.  Born in Ireland but I have no idea whereabouts.

If anyone can help I would be very grateful.

Regards,  Josie

[MaryA]

What is your evidence for his mother's name of Ellen?

Perhaps you have another census entry you can give the details of?

[Lawson]

I found a John Garvey living with his mum who was widowed
(his age ties up) living in the Oldham area on the 1861 census.  I wondered if it could be the same John Garvey.
He would be my ggg grandfather.

Josie

[MaryA]

The reason for asking is that I don't see a John Garvey with mother Ellen in either the 1851 or 1861 census.  The one I see in 1861 has parents Owen McPhillips and Winney with a son of Winney's being Patrick Fibben, who live in Oldham.

To help identify the family you see please give fuller details and references so that we can look further.

Added after

I've now found the John you are looking at in 1861 - listed under GarNey.

[MaryA]

The full 1861 entry is
Hobson Street, Oldham Below Town, Oldham, Lancashire
Ellen Garney Head M 45 Ireland
Ann daur 18 Factory Operative Ireland
JOhn son 13[5/8] Ireland (a bit of a scribbly date so not definite)
Patrick son 15 Ireland
Mary daur 5 Scholar Lancashire Oldham
RG9; Piece: 3009; Folio: 108; Page: 25

Let's follow them forward to check.

Did your John marry a Sarah?

1871 2 Court 2 House, Jackson Street, Oldham Below Town
John Garvey Head M 24 Cotton Spinner Ireland
Sarah Wife M 24 Card Room Operative Ireland
Thomas son 2 Lancashire Oldham
RG10; Piece: 4093; Folio: 122; Page: 39

also at 25 New Street, Oldham Below Town
Ellen Garvey Head Widow 46
Ann daur Unm 24 Throstle Spinner
Mary daur Unm 14 Twiner Piecer Lancashire Oldham
RG10; Piece: 4098; Folio: 142; Page: 2

Patrick is a little more difficult to spot, he doesn't appear to be in Oldham and there are quite a number of those of the same name around Lancashire, mostly just giving Ireland for their birthplace, any being more specific are living in unlikely places to be yours.

I don't see them in 1851 unfortunately, and judging by the ages and birthplaces of the children it may well be that they hadn't arrived in England at that time.  I think your next step forward would be to get the birth certificate for Mary -

There are three options here
Mary Garvey - b 1844 Dec q Chorlton 20/198
Mary Garvey - b 1846 Jun q Manchester 20/761
Mary Ann Garvey - b 1845 Mar q Manchester 20/6_0 (I think it's 610)

If you ordered one of these on a guess and gave the criteria as mother's name Ellen costing £7, if you were wrong they would refund £4.   In your position I would contact the GRO and ask them to do one of their three year searches - you state the three consecutive years - and ask them to check the Mary Garveys for one with mother Ellen, this should cost you £11.50 which might be a better bargain than guessing two wrong.

At least hopefully you should start out your search in Ireland with the names of both parents rather than just a surname.

[Lawson]

Thanks a lot for your trouble Mary, it's been a big help.
John did marry Sarah Cannon, I got a copy of the m.c. that's where I got Johns fathers name as Patrick, after Thomas they had Mary Ellen who was my gg grandmother, sadly Thomas died as an infant and Sarah was only 28 when she died.

I found a death of a Patrick Garvey in 1861 which was of a similar age to his wife Ellen, also their son Patrick died quite young.

I'm also of the opinion that they came from Ireland between 1851 and 1861.  I can't find anything about Sarah before her marriage, only that her father was Denis Cannon.

Once again thanks for your help, much appreciated.

Cheers, Josie