My other Surname interest, SAINSBURY & BYRON

[avoidingvista]

Peter

I haven't but maybe Carino has. I searched Bridgwater St John records for Sainsburys. The result was one marriage of John Sainsbury and baptism of Hugh Byron Sainsbury. I then searched Independent records that remain for Bridgwater with no luck. There is a bastardy order on John Saintsbury in 1780s. Beyond that I have drawn a blank on searching Sainsbury or variants in Bridgwater pre 1815. This drove me to explore the clockmaker link and I have posted everything I have found. I have not searched Wiltshire or London baptisms beyond the independent registers held by NA and available on line.

Two thoughts:
1. The family was clearly not C of E and at times are in surviving records of independent churches. This makes probability of records surviving lower.
2. The clockmakers seem to have been drawn into the clockmaking area of London having been in Chippenham, Bristol and Bridgwater in the late 1700s. I think an understanding of the evolution of clockmaking during this period may explain the movement of the family and give clues as to where to search further.

I have reached the point where I believe the likelyhood of finding further records on Sainsburys in Bridgwater is low.

Jim

[petercornish]

Hi Jim,

Many thanks for the update.

Regards   ...   Peter

[mrnolson]

Just to add my 2 pennies worth.

I don't know where it fits in the grand scheme of things, but in my tree Richard Mees Sainsbury 'married' a woman called Mary Anne Wood (nee Dawes)

They had 3 children:
Theresa Mary (1831),
Emily Augusta (1834) and
Edward (1841).

Mary Anne also had 3 children from her previous marriage to Peter Wood:
Catherine Anne (1813)
Jane (1817) and
Matilda (1819)

Catherine and Matilda Wood were already living with their new families when the 1841 census was taken and explains why Jane is the only one still living with Richard and Mary Anne (and her sisters).

Jane evidently considered Richard to be her father as she referred to him as such on her marriage certificate in 1845.


Elliot

[Carino]

I haven't done this family tree in ages so what a lovely surprise to see this message this morning,  I have never been able to find Mary's surname so to see it as Wood is indeed a surprise ( i'm married to a Wood now ) you have renewed my interest on this side of the family,  I did hit a brick wall that made me loose interest for a while and so I concentrated on the other parts of my tree.  I wondered where the daughter Jane came in,  I found reference to her only once and could never find anything else.  I'm of to work soon so tomorrow on my day off I will take a deeper look into this.  Thank you so much for posting this I am so grateful thank you.


I've had a quick look and found a marriage for her and Peter in Brighton,  but I havent found one for Richard as yet.

[MartinOsborne]

Hi All,
Sorry, I am late to the party on this discussion, but first of all thank you to everyone for all of the useful information. 
Phoebe Sainsbury who is mentioned in one of the posts was my 3rd great grandmother.  She had nothing to do with clocks but married a soldier called John Harman.  A soldier of that name was injured at the battle of Waterloo.  John returned to Wiltshire about 1815 but the entire family ended up as paupers on the parish and were treated very badly.  They eventually became pawns in a long-running legal battle between two parishes about which should support them.
Back to the clocks.  I have found a record that Richard Meese Sainsbury was apprenticed to James Moore clockmaker of Warminster in 1804 and was still in that position in 1807.  Unusually, the record does not say how long the contract was for.
I believe that his father Richard Sainsbury remained in Wilton and is the Richard shown on the 1841 census as a weaver.  However other Richard Sainsburys are available.  He appears to be living with Elizabeth the daughter of his first marriage.
I had just investigated my main ancestral line until a DNA match came up with someone descended from Richard Percy Sainsbury, so I have started looking at the wider family.
Everyone has spent time hunting for Richard Mathias Sainsbury, but the only evidence for his existence is the entry on the marriage certificate of his son Richard Percy (Piercy) Sainsbury.  Applying Occam's razor, I surmise that it should in fact be Richard Meese Sainsbury.  It is even possible that his son did not know what his father's middle name actually was.
Given the family tradition of using mother's or grandmother's names as middle names we are possibly looking for a marriage between Richard Meese Sainsbury and someone called Pierce in the Warminster / Bridgwater area about 1809.  There are some Pierce families nearby.  Richard would have been 21, finishing his apprenticeship and ready to start up in business or go into partnership with one of the Sainsbury or Moore clockmaking mafia.  Just right for marriage and starting a family.  I wonder if they had other children as well?
Back to the Wilton family.  Richard Meese Sainsbury's grandfather was Valentine Sainsbury, one of a long line of farmers of the same name.
I have some documentation for all of this, but at the time I wasn't storing it online so it might take a bit of finding.