1861 Southwark Census LAWRENCE and STUTTLE

[Bryant]

Strange............

from the 1871 where Robert Stuttle is the head and Jane E is one of his daughters

I can find Maria aged 12 in 1871........born MARIA REBECCA...STEPNEY...JUN 1858
I can find Charlotte aged 4 in 1871......born CHARLOTTE H.....STEPNEY....JUN 1866

Where is JANE E aged 8 in 1871...........or ELIZABETH J.............freebmd not got there yet?

and no their isn't that many Stuttle's around so a good chance that they are one family...........

[Bryant]

1841
BARRACK STREET, ST LEONARD, COLCHESTER

WILLIAM STUTTLE  35  SHIPWRIGHT   Y (BORN ESSEX)
SARAH         "          35                         Y
SARAH         "          13                          Y
ELIZABETH   "           9                          Y
EMILY           "           7                          Y
HENRY          "           5                          Y
WESTOBY     "           6 MONTHS            Y
-----------------------

1841
HYTHE STREET, ST LEONARD, COLCHESTER
ROBERT STUTTLE  45  SAIL MAKER  Y
SARAH        "         40                       Y
-------------------
1841
MALDON LANE, ST MARY AT WALLS, COLCHESTER
ANN STUTTLE  45                          Y
ANN       "        19                          Y
ESTHER  "        17 TAILORESS       Y
ROBERT  "        14                         Y
HANNAH "         12                         Y
----------------------

You need to look at the IGI's on the LDS site to see if you can link the elders of the family?   

[leaf]

Hi Bryant,

I couldn't find anything for Elizabeth Jane or Jane Stuttle or Stuttels in freebmd, but I missed Arthur William Lawrence too (probably due to my lack of knowledge of London).  I don't think it can be the Jane E you've found in 1871 because my Elizabeth Jane Stuttle was married in 1875 and had her first child in 1876.

I've had another look at her marriage certificate again. I hope you can follow this:-  At the bottom where it say this marriage was solemnized between us,  and their names are written, there is a linedrawn down through Arthurs name toward Elizabeth with a small 25 at the top of it.  to the left of the certificate box is written Twenty five and the registrar has initialled it.  

Does this mean that Elizabeth Jane was actually 25 when she got married?  This would give yet another year of birth for her as 1850  

Which fits in with what you have just found out.  You're a superstar Bryant    Thank you so very much.

leaf

[leaf]

Hi Bryant,

Just thought about it again.  The Elizabeth you found, daughter of William in1841 would have been born about 1832.  My Elizabeth Jane had her youngest child in 1889 which would have made her 57.  I'm certain they are all the same family.  Maybe they had two daughters called Elizabeth, which may be why the second one was known by her middle name Jane?  I did look on IGI previously.  I'm off to try again.  Thank you, leaf

   

[Bryant]

I never believed Elizabeth as in 1841 was yours..........too old by far (or was in those days)
if she was born a Stuttle......she wasn't born Eliza Jane or Jane Eliza.........I can see a SARAH born SARAH ELIZABETH STUTTLE ....DEC 1854....COLCHESTER but looking at the 1861 her father appears to be Robert who is an ale porter!


PARENTS OF ALL BELOW ARE.........WILLIAM & MARY..........ALL CHRISTIANINGS TOOK PLACE AT ST LEONARD, COLCHESTER, ESSEX

THOMAS STUTTLE                      B.15 SEPT 1781....C.14 OCT 1781
ANN STUTTEL                             B.29 AUG 1784....C.26 SEPT 1784
SAMUEL GIBSON STUTTLE                                      C.24 OCT 1790
JOHN WITHEY STUTTLE              B.31 JAN 1793.....C.10 MAR 1793
ROBERT STUTTLE                                                    C.AUG 1795
----------------------------------

PARENTS OF ALL BELOW ARE.........WILLIAM WESTERBY STUTTLE & SARAH..........ALL CHRISTIANINGS TOOK PLACE AT ST LEONARD, COLCHESTER, ESSEX

SARAH ANN STUTTLE                      C.15 JUNE 1828
*WILLIAM WESTABY STUTTLE           C.13 DEC 1829
ELIZABETH EVERITT STUTTLE          C.11 DEC 1831
EMILY SOPHIA STUTTLE                  C.13 AUG 1834
HENRY STUTTLE                              C.29 NOV 1835
---------------------------------

FATHER OF BELOW IS.........WESTERBY STUTTLE ..........CHRISTIANING TOOK PLACE AT ST LEONARD, COLCHESTER, ESSEX

*WESTABY WILLIAM STUTTLE          C.21 NOV 1802
--------------------------------

1841
BARRACK STREET, ST LEONARD, COLCHESTER

*WILLIAM STUTTLE  35  SHIPWRIGHT   Y (BORN ESSEX)
SARAH         "          35                         Y
SARAH         "          13                          Y
ELIZABETH   "           9                          Y
EMILY           "           7                          Y
HENRY          "           5                          Y
WESTOBY     "           6 MONTHS            Y

*1841 rule on age applies ie 35-39=35

[Bryant]

Leaf

Methinks you need to revisit that marriage cert..................I may be wrong and probably are? is it possible you may be misreading Jane's surname on that marriage cert? as something is wrong somewhere!

1871
2a BLACKBIRD ALLEY, BETHNAL GREEN, MIDDX
JANE STUTTER     HEAD (WID)  54  LAUNDRESS          BETHNAL GREEN
JANE        "          DAUR  (UNM) 19 ELASTIC MAKER         "
WILLIAM  "          SON              16 TASSELL MAKER        "
SAM WILLIAM "  grandson         2                                   "
---------------------

JANE STUTTERS............B.MAR QTR 1852.......BETHNAL GREEN
WILLIAM   "      ............B.MAR QTR 1855........       "
WILLIAM STUTTURS......B. SEPT 1868.............       "

If i'm right? you may have to buy another birth cert

[leaf]

Hi Bryant,

I just got over excited by the 1841 census you found as it had an Eliza with a father William 

Thank you so much for spending time helping me with this.  It is really puzzling.

I have the marriage certificate in front of me.  It looks as if the registrar filled in all of it as there is no noticable change in handwriting.  It is clearly Elizabeth Jane Stuttle both in the name and surname box and on the marriage solemnized line.

On her daughter's (Edith Maria) birth certificate her name is given as Jane Lawrence formerly Stuttels.

What birth certificate do you think I need to buy to clarify things?

Thank you once again for all your efforts.  leaf
 

[leaf]

Hi Bryant,

I've looked on the marriage index and the only possible I could find between 1835 and 1855 was a William Edward Stutter Jul-Sep 1841 in Bury St. Edmonds Suffolk, a possibilty for his wife includes a Jane Ann Renny.

I suppose it depends if the Jane Stutter(s) you found in Blackbird Alley had a husband called William.  leaf

[Bryant]

I looked for Jane and her mother Jane and brother William in the 1861.......but i'm blowed if I could find them

I did find William in the 1881 and low and behold what did he call his first born................is that a pure coincidence? 

1881
42 ARUNDEL STREET, LONDON, MIDDLESEX
WILLIAM STUTERS  HEAD  26  SILK SPINNER   LONDON, MIDDX
SARAH           "        WIFE  23                                    "
ELIZABETH J  "         DAUR  1                                     "
---------------------

when I first looked at the 1871 I thought it read Stuttel and not Stutter......I thought I'd cracked it! and then I went and looked for their births.......

I can't see the 1851..............put a post out for the STUT(T)ER family in 1851 and hope they are married at that time..........looking for JANE STUTTER(S) aged approx 34............she is aged 54 and a widow in 1871 with a daughter Jane born at Bethnal Green in 1852

for me.............the Stuttle family with William's and being carpenters by trade are the right family..............but Jane <> Elizabeth born in the 1850's doesn't add up.......and the Stutter(s) need to be eliminated........ in a friendly sort of way you understand 

and hope
Bryant