Author Topic: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden  (Read 45409 times)

Offline castlebob

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Re: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden
« Reply #90 on: Saturday 26 May 07 09:04 BST (UK) »
Hello All,
I don't know if any of you have been in contact with Jim Armstrong in Manitoba, Canada? His ancestors were direct descendants of the Wilstead branch, & there is a book about the village which mentions the Armstrong/Methodist church link.
Jim & I have helped each other on various projects over the years, and one of the earliest things we found was a will from Jan 17th 1723 naming a John & Sarah Armstrong from Wilstead. However, this didn't get us very far!
Both Jim & I are certain our branches link, & also that the Thurleigh. Ravensden & Wilden groups do too. We always felt that the second John b 1714 in Riseley was the link. (The elder John died in infancy in 1711).
There are branches from Wilstead in NZ, Oz, Canada & the US still thriving now.
Cheers,
Bob
Armstrongs of   Bedfordshire, England & Canonbie ,Scotland

Offline castlebob

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Re: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden
« Reply #91 on: Saturday 26 May 07 09:12 BST (UK) »
Hello All,
I noticed you mentioned Christian Fiddes who wed Thomas Armstrong (c21st Apr `1734 in Wilstead) married in 1766. Jim & I believe she was of Scottish origins, born near Jedburgh. Family folklore said we were from Scottish stock originally, so this possibility interested me.
However, I joined both the Armstrong Clan Associations 25 years ago & still can't prove our ancient roots. I think the DNA route will be the way to go.
Cheers,
Bob
Armstrongs of   Bedfordshire, England & Canonbie ,Scotland

Offline castlebob

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Re: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden
« Reply #92 on: Saturday 26 May 07 10:10 BST (UK) »
Hello All,
Sorry for clogging things up, but you are right about Christie b 1794 in Ickleford, Herts. I have all these shown on my tree, plus the Shingay, N. Pagnell,  Haynes, St. Neots, Grafham, L. Stukely Holwell & Upper Stondon links.
William A & Phoebe Forster in Ickleford had 8 kids, 6 in U. Stondon, the last 2 in Shilington.
Cheers,
Bob
Armstrongs of   Bedfordshire, England & Canonbie ,Scotland

Offline castlebob

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Re: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden
« Reply #93 on: Saturday 26 May 07 11:52 BST (UK) »
Hello Judi & everyone,
It seems obvious that our John (c6th Sep 1761 in Wilstead, son of John & Edith (nee Grange) is probably the one who wed Sarah. They in turn produced the 7 Ravensden children , eg Mary c29 Apr 1787. The death age of John Armstrong on 14th Nov 1826 age 66 fits perfectly.
I honestly believe this to be the case, but please don't hesitate to contradict this supposition.
Cheers,
Bob
PS Cousin Jim & I always thought there was a connection from Riseley via John c1714, but it looks like it happened a little later!
Armstrongs of   Bedfordshire, England & Canonbie ,Scotland


Offline wdurham

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Re: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden
« Reply #94 on: Saturday 26 May 07 11:56 BST (UK) »
Don't apologise, Bob - it's all grist to the Armstrong mill!

Since I got your PM earlier today, I have been trying to put the links we have surmised into a single succinct document, but it's difficult to keep it short! David and John, with their access to the various parish records and the BVRI  have been of enormous help in figuring out how everyone ties up

I have explored the link to the "posh" Armstrongs of Houghton Conquest/Ampthill area too, and haven't found one - yet. I also had a quick look at the Elstow branch, simply because of the name Edith, but they seem to spring fully-grown onto the IGI in 1788 and are untraceable before that. I can't tie in to the Upper Gravenhurst clan either. But here's what we have found so far, with big apologies for the sheer length of it!

John b about 1670 and Sarah b about 1670 - both somewhere other than Riseley - married before 1700, probably not in Riseley, and settled in Riseley.

They had 8 children, all baptised in Riseley, between 1700 and 1716, most of whom died very young. The only son who survived into adulthood was William b 1701.

John and Sarah were both buried in Riseley in 1727 and 1746 respectively.

There is no burial for William b 1701 in Riseley - so he clearly moved on. The only suitable burial entry in the NBI for him is in Wilstead on 5 Sep 1765.

A William Armstrong and his wife Sarah had two children. John baptised in 1729 in Riseley and Thomas baptised in 1734 in Wilstead. There is a marriage of a William Armstrong and Sarah Prudden, Puddington, 24 Aug 1729 - but it's a bit suspect as it's AFTER the birth of John. Not impossible though!

William and Sarah were both buried in Wilstead in 1765 and 1752.

Their second son Thomas remained in Wilstead and married Christian Fiddes in 1766. He and Christian were buried in Wilstead in 1818 and 1794 respectively. They had two sons, Thomas b 1766, who went on to become a comfortably off farmer in Holwell (I have his will), and William b 1769 who founded Wesleyanism in Wilstead and raised a large family. One of his sons moved to Haynes.

For their first son, John, there is only one suitable burial in the NBI - that of John Armstrong, labourer, in Maulden in 1773. Also in Maulden, there is the burial of Eddy Armstrong, wife of John,labourer, who was buried in 1770.

A John Armstrong married Edy Grange in Houghton Conquest in 1753. A John Armstrong and his wife Edith had two sons in Wilstead - William b 1754 and John b 1761. There are no burials for any of them in Wilstead.

In the Maulden Overseers of the Poor book, there is an entry as follows:
OVERSEERS of the Poor, Apprenticeship
FILE - Bond (£20) Wm Batterson of Cople - Cordwainer, to Maulden Church Wardens re apprenticeship of Wm Armstrong. - ref.  P31/14/53  - date: 12 Mar 1766.

So William b 1754 went off to Cople to pursue his new trade. In 1779 he married Mary Robins, and you know the rest.....

As for what happened to John, nothing has yet been found. But there is again only one possible burial for a John Armstrong b 1760-1761 and that is John Armstrong, buried at the age of 66 in Ravensden in 1826. His wife was Sarah, who died in 1813 aged 47. John does not appear on the marriage records or the baptism records of Ravensden, so they came from elsewhere. They seem to have been the only Ravensden Armstrong family.

In 1803 there was only one John Armstrong on the Ravensden Local Defence register. In the same year there was no Armstrong on the list of owners of carts or horses, so he was not a man of means.

He and Sarah had 8 children in Ravensden between 1787 and 1807, baptised in batches at irregular intervals. One daughter was baptised Edith - perhaps for his mother?

It also seems 99% certain that there was a ninth child, William b about 1792. This William is usually identified by his descendants as the son of Thomas Armstrong and Phoebe Wisson of Upper Gravenhurst.

However, in Census returns he gave his birthplace as Ravensden. His marriage record and his banns for his first marriage in Wilden state "bachelor of Ravensden". He and his first wife Elizabeth Franklin had five children in Wilden, of whom three died. The first daughter was named Sarah and the second Elizabeth. The first son was named William and the second John. After Elizabeth's death in 1825 he moved to Thurleigh and married Ann Wrench, nee Gammons, with whom he had three more children, of whom the eldest was named Sarah. His son William also settled in Thurleigh and raised a family. Both are present in the 1841 census, and they are the only Armstrong family in the village.

So there are all the links we have made between Riseley, Wilstead, Maulden, Ravensden, Wilden and Thurleigh.

Hope it makes sense!

Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney

Offline johnP-bedford

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Re: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden
« Reply #95 on: Saturday 26 May 07 13:04 BST (UK) »
Hello Bob,  & welcome to RootsChat. Well you've been busy since I read your first posting at 9 am this morning. I haven't had chance to digest it all yet. 

I have a link to Armstrongs of Ravensden/Thurleigh through marriage(s) into my Partridge family [David Cassidy isn't amongst them !] who spread themselves over the Sharnbrook/Riseley/Bletsoe/Thurleigh area, with some going off towards Eaton Socon.

Hello Wendy; David I know has had computer problems but I do suspect he is at this moment sunning himself by a drinking establishment en France.

Regards John   
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Partridge - North Beds; Northants & Peterborough
Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey
Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts
Clement - Croydon
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Offline wdurham

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Re: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden
« Reply #96 on: Saturday 26 May 07 14:15 BST (UK) »
Hello, JP -  I trust you enjoyed your few days away?  ;)

Bob seems to have made all the same links as us -  nice when things start coming together!

Bob -

I had found Jos Armstrong and Sarah on the IGI - but they are in my "odds and sods" file for now, as I can't find a way to link to them at all. They have no children in the IGI, in Thurleigh or anywhere else in Bedfordshire, and I can't find a likely birth for Jos. (Josiah or Joseph, I guess).

I also have an unidentified Henry, b about 1802 in Cople according to census info, who married Maria Cambers in Cople in May 1826, and lived there till his death in 1876 aged 64.  I thought at first he belonged to William and Mary - but Mary died in 1801.  Any ideas?

A quick check on the IGI finds a Richard Armstrong who married Martha Games in Jan 1679 in Tempsford. A member entry gives a daughter of theirs named Ann, born about 1695 who died on 2 Mar 1732 in Tetworth, Hunts. Nothing else obvious.
Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney

Offline castlebob

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Re: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden
« Reply #97 on: Saturday 26 May 07 14:44 BST (UK) »
Hello Wendy,
Yes, Henry & Maria are on my tree. William c1754 wed secondly Mary Tatman in 1802 in Cople. After having 6 kids with his first wife, Mary Robins, he had Henry (adult chr in 1826 age 3 who wed Maria Cambers.They had 5 kids, firstly Hannah in 1827, who had the illeg John Nottingham Armstrong. This John wed Sarah Wood in Mile End, London in 1872.
Henry & Maria also had Mary c1829, George 1832 wed Sarah White, Joseph c1834 wed Emma Rawlins & Benjamin c1843.
George & Sarah had 3 kids ie Mary Annb 1850 who wed Charles Barcock, Ellen b 1858 & Elizabeth c 1860 in Eastcotts. All above Cople born except Elizabeth c1860.
These are on my tree which I can post, plus Riseley, & the surrounding counties
Cheers,
Bob
Armstrongs of   Bedfordshire, England & Canonbie ,Scotland

Offline wdurham

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Re: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden
« Reply #98 on: Saturday 26 May 07 19:30 BST (UK) »
Cheers, Bob - more fascinating stuff...

I am sure we will find eventually that they are all related one way or another. Armstrong is a borders name from the Debatable Land and our far flung forbears were probably border reivers and vagabonds and blackguards like the Scotts and the Kerrs!

It's noticeable that wherever the Armstrongs chose to settle, they were almost always the first and only Armstrong family in that village. The parents had rarely been married in the village where they bore their children, and it was only as they bore children who bore children that they started building the various communities we have found in places like Wilstead and Ravensden and Thurleigh. So they were quite clearly incomers - and most probably from outside the county.

In the meantime, the coincidences multiply, and as JP's quote says, from one of my favourite films of all time:

"Round in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel..."
Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney