ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden

[wdurham]

You'll be delighted to know, JP, that Mickledore and I have established that our mothers are indeed second cousins, as their grannies were sisters - Annie (known in the family as Nance or Nancy) and Sophia Chandler, daughters of George Chandler and Elizabeth Armstrong.

Sophia, incidentally, is pronounced Sof-eye-a. She used to take great exception to Sof-ee-a, and would stick nose in the air and point out that it was a place in Bulgaria rather than her name.

We have now taken the family gossip to private messaging to avoid boring the pants of everyone else!

However, one question - does anyone know if an adoption can be discovered in any way?  We believe from family lore that Louisa Chandler adopted an Emmeline Morris during the early 1900's, and would like some kind of confirmation. I doubt very much that such data is available - but does anyone know better?

Thanks so much, JP - and David - for all your help. And it probably isn't done with yet....! 

[bedfordshire boy]

Legal adoptions didn't start until 1926, and any adoptions prior to that were purely informal affairs, so I think your doubts are justified!

Regards

David

[johnP-bedford]

Wendy,  That's great news - do you and Mickledore live close enough to have a family reunion.

Wendy & David,  I'm planning to go to Bedford tomorrow & the library to look up PRs to 1812 for Ravensden, Wilden, Upper Gravenhurst, anywhere else - can I have a quick summary of anything outstanding needing looking up.

Also if I can make it, on Monday as Beds Archive stay open until 7:00pm, I can have about hour & a half checking PRs from 1812 onwards - again put down your requests.
 
Cheers John

[wdurham]

John, you are a scholar and a gentleman.

The BIG tricky one is William Armstrong b about 1791 in Ravensden, (NOT Upper Gravenhurst) but I guess you want to look him up for yourself anyway!

He doesn't apear in the Ravensden batch on the IGI as a child of John Armstrong and Sarah, but that is not necessarily meaningful, as nor does a Sarah born about 1807 who died in 1810 aged 3 according to the NBI.

Then there is the marriage of John Armstrong Snr b about 1760 and Sarah - but as we don't have a clue where they came from, that's a hard one!

However, Wilhampstead might be a possibility.  John Armstrong 1760 turned up in Ravensden in 1787 and Thomas Armstrong 1756 who married Phoebe turned up in Upper Gravensden in or about 1788. There is an IGI entry that places Thomas's birth in UG, but it's a member entry based on his marriage to Phoebe which simply assumes he was born where he married.

John Armstrong and Edy Grange of Houghton Conquest married in HC in 1753.  William Armstrong was baptised in Wilhampstead in 1754, son of John and Edith. John Armstrong was baptised in 1761, son of John and Edith. Might they also have had a Thomas b 1756 - he would fit nicely into the gap!

There is a Thomas, but he's baptised in 1766 son of Thomas and Christian Fiddes, so 10 years too young.

John b 1760 named two of his children John and Edith, which is a slim link, but nonetheless it IS a link!

It might be worth checking Wilhamstead and/or Houghton Conquest, to see if there is anything in the PRs which isn't on the IGI.

If you can find anything, I shall be very grateful - this is my direct line, and I am thoroughly stuck.

Best regards
Wendy

PS Another bit of circumstantial stuff - the Chandlers who joined up with the Armstrongs when Elizabeth married George in 1857 were pretty strict Primitive Methodists. They too baptised their children in batches. I wonder if the Armstrongs were too? Maybe their patchy baptism record is simply because they had to wait for a Methodist minister to pass by? And if one didn't, then they just didn't bother with baptism?  I have something very similar in Kent, with a Catholic family living in a Protestant parish.

[bedfordshire boy]

Re your PS Wendy; the children were baptised in the established church so it couldn't have been a case of waiting for a methodist minister to float by. But non-conformity must be a possibilty particularly as you know the Chandlers were of that persuasion.

John - my post of 7 May 07.08 has what I think needs checking

Regards

David

[johnP-bedford]

Hello,  Well that didn't reveal anything extra from the PRs up to 1812.

The only Armstrongs at Ravensden are the baptisms of Mary, Edith, Elizabeth, Ann & John that we already know; plus the burial of Sarah age 3 in 1810. All children of John & Sarah.  There is no baptism of a William c 1792 or indeed of Sarah 1807. There is no marriage of John to Sarah.

The only Armstrongs in Upper Gravenhurst are the ones we know, children of Thomas & Phoebe Wisson, plus their marriage in 1788. The burials were Sarah in 1797 daughter of Thomas & Phoebe, & William 7 Aug 1807. No confirmation that he was child of Thomas & Phoebe.

No Armstrongs at Wilden prior to 1812.

Wilstead had baptisms of John 1761 & William 1754 to John & Edith Armstrong; and Thomas 1766 & William 1769 to Thomas & Christian Armstrong.  Thomas married Christian Fiddes on 19 Apr 1766, & Christian Armstrong burial on 27 Oct 1794. As you say John married Edith at Houghton Conquest in 1753.

No other likely candidates found.

Regards John



 

[wdurham]

Thankyou, John - nothing ventured, nothing learned, and though you didn't find anything we didn't already know, it was worth the effort and I am very grateful.

At least the Wilstead stuff supports the IGI information - again just two Armstrongs, of about the same age, Thomas who married Christian in Wilstead and John who probably married Edith in Houghton Conquest nearby. Some of Thomas's descendants seem to have stayed in Wilstead - there are a lot of baptisms and marriages within his probable line. John and Edith's children don't seem to be in the picture at all, so I guess they moved on.

Re: Ravensden, there is therefore at least one undocumented child, Sarah, b about 1807 and buried in 1810.

UNLESS she was Sarah Ann - there IS a baptism on the IGI for an Ann of John and Sarah in 1807, who was baptised along with a Thomas. As they already had an Ann, who didn't get buried till 1816, this seems a bit odd?

So I guess we just have to take William 1790-1792-ish (depending which census return you look at!) at face value. He said he was born in Ravensden, and never moved more than 3 miles away - first to Wilden and then to Thurleigh.  His children have the right names, even though they were common names.  If he was born in Ravensden then he is the son of John and Sarah, simply because there is no other option. He either wasn't baptised at all, or got left off somehow! There is even a possibility of other unbaptised children as there is a big gap between Ann in 1791 and Edith in 1798 based on David's BVRI findings re birth years. Previously they had been having a child every second year.

Thanks again for the effort - 

[wdurham]

Question - is it my connection, or is the IGI unobtainable? I just can't get to it at all now, after having only intermittent availability since last weekend.

[johnP-bedford]

The IGI is responding well,  just tried it & got an answer straight back.

Wendy, have you discussed William's parents with Darren Hopkinson on Genes Reunited; he's just sent me a reply doubting the Upper Gravenhurst connection.