ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden

[wdurham]

Talk about timing!

I am literally at this moment "talking" to Darren via email and G-R!

He says he has always doubted the UG connection but allowed himself to be persuaded by another G-R member.....he seems to like the idea of William 1792 REALLY being Ravensden born of John and Sarah.

Intriguing that your assay today into the Ravensden records didn't turn up Ann and Thomas of John and Sarah on 28 Sep 1807?  They are in the IGI batch for Ravensden, which are allegedly extracted records.

[johnP-bedford]

That is interesting what you say about Ann & Thomas in Sept 1807 - I will have another look at the Archives on Monday. Could they be recorded later ie. after 1812 ?.  so maybe they will be on the post 1812 microfiche.  Secondly this Ann of 1807, is she a replacement for the one b 1791 baptised in Nov 1802 ?  If so where's the burial of the first Ann.   

[wdurham]

Hi, John - posted this earlier today:

"Re: Ravensden, there is therefore at least one undocumented child, Sarah, b about 1807 and buried in 1810.

UNLESS she was Sarah Ann - there IS a baptism on the IGI for an Ann of John and Sarah in 1807, who was baptised along with a Thomas. As they already had an Ann, who didn't get buried till 1816, this seems a bit odd?"

IGI Batch No: for them both is C148781 covering 1565 - 1875

[bedfordshire boy]

The other thing you might double check John, are the three 1802 baptisms where the BVRI has the entries dated 1789, 1791 and 1800 - are ages actually shown in the PR?

I've always had doubts about the UG connection. There's no apparent documented link; the census birthplace doesn't support it; and it appears that someone has found the right name at the right time on the IGI and made an enormous unsupported assumption.

The fact that Thomas and Phoebe were the first Armstrongs in UG makes it more likely that the William buried in 1807 was their son born 1792

I can't see a burial or marriage for Ann christened 1807, nor can I find her in a census. Given that her elder sister Ann was still alive in 1807 I'm very suspicious about her name and agree with Wendy that this could be an error in the PR

Did either John or Sarah leave a will?

Regards

David

[johnP-bedford]

Morning David,   Yes this detail was noted yesterday.

On 15 Nov 1802 baptisms at Ravensden to John (labourer) & Sarah Armstrong.
Eliz age 13  (= 1789)
Ann age 11  (= 1791)
John age 7 months (= 1802)

Just reviewed Genes Reunited trees; there are 8 people who have William Armstrong 1792 who also have Thomas 1763 & Phoebe Wisson 1767.

Regards John

[bedfordshire boy]

Moaning

It's the sheep mentality. What's their evidence, other than they saw it in an online tree so it must be right? The fact that he probably died age 15 seems to have been ignored - these trees that are cobbled together just using the IGI often miss vital information from burials.

So presumably you're going to look at William's two marriages tomorrow to see if they provide any clues? You might get lucky and find the witnesses add something.

I have a nasty feeling that William is going to come down to "on the balance of probabilities he was an unbaptised son of John and Sarah"!

28 here again today - then dropping + rain, but brightening up on Thursday, and hot again next weekend. Looking good for you!

Regards

David

PS Just one more snippet - Thomas Armstrong aged 90 was buried at UG on 2 Sept 1846, and he was in the 1841 age 85 born in county

[wdurham]

Regarding information from burials, I have found a bit more about the Wilstead lot.  I located - and John has confirmed from the PRs - a Thomas Armstrong married to Christian Fiddes, and a John Armstrong married to an Edith, who were producing children in the 1750-1770 period.

Having turned up a burial for a Sarah Armstrong w/o William in Sep 1752, I then found a burial for a William in Sep 1765. And a baptism for Thomas son of William and Sarah, on 21 Apr 1734. These all came from Ancestry's Bedfordshire Parish and Probate records, which has a sizeable chunk of the Wilstead parish records.

The FHO pay-per-view website has what looks like all of the NBI for Bedfordshire,  and the burials mentioned above are all there.

So we have a William and a Sarah, who married somewhere, and moved to Wilstead before 1734, possibly with at least one child named John. In 1734 they had a son named Thomas.

Sarah died and was buried 26 Sep 1752. William MAY have died in Sep 1765 - but this burial could have been that of the son of John and Edith b 1754, as no age is given.

Thomas married Christian Fiddes in 1766 - they had two sons, Thomas b 1766 and William b 1769.

John married Edith - perhaps Edy Grange from Houghton Conquest in 1753 - and produced William b 1754 and John b 1760.

I then found two burials in Maulden -

Eddey ARMSTRONG Date  3 Jan 1770 Aged – Place Maulden Description St Mary Denomination Anglican County code BDF

John ARMSTRONG Date  9 Nov 1773 Aged – Place Maulden Description St Mary Denomination Anglican County code BDF

Sadly no age is given to help determine whether these are the parents of John b 1760-ish in Wilstead. They died quite young if they are - both only in their 40s or 50s.

Amongst all the other burials for John Armstrongs, there is really only one that can be linked to John b 1760, son of John and Edith, and that's John Armstrong, buried in Ravensden in 1826 aged 66.

A John Armstrong was buried in Wilstead in 1872 aged 73 - he is most likely to have been the son of William Armstrong and Mary, who began producing children in 1800, with John as their eldest. William could have been either the son of Thomas and Christian or the son of John and Edith. I favour the son of Thomas and Christian, purely because of age!

All highly circumstantial, of course, but worth pursuing...?

[bedfordshire boy]

I've checked the two Maulden burials against the transcript, and it all says is Eddey wife of John, labourer, and 1773, John labourer

Regards

David

[wdurham]

Thanks, David -

At least that confirms that Eddey WAS John's wife, rather than another husky labourer baptised Edward!