ANN / ALICE MANN - A Penny For Your Thoughts

[heywood]

I thought I'd checked for Alice Ross but realise now it was only in census!
There is a 1838 marriage on Free BMD to William Mann. (possible spouse anyway)

1851 and 1861 have this couple - a son William is there in 1861 and in 1871 he is a nephew with a Ross family. There is a death on Free BMD for a William in 1863 and a death for an Alice in 1866 but she is listed as 52 yrs old which is a few years older than the ages of the censuses.

It's still a bit circumspect at the moment - stanleymansion - you could send for the death certificate of Alice to see where she was living etc. --1861 she was at Blundell Coourt Bolton - don't know how close this is to Lodge Vale.

It does seem to be coming together though- jot it all down and see what you think.

regards
heywood



Stanleymansion - don't know how familiar you are with research on these sites we mention - just ask if you need further explanation.

[stanleymansion]

WOW!!  You guys - absolutely amazing stuff here! I've only been doing my tree for about 2 months so it's still a steep learning curve. Felt like I was hitting a brick wall on this one and didn't know where to go next.

I found Ann Rodgett but assumed that wasn't going to give me a lead so ignored it. I will write everything down as you suggest and follow the lines you've given me. All seems very promising and can't wait to get started. Must get my jobs done first though otherwise I'll still be sat here at midnight.

Thank you very much Heywood and Mosiefish; will report back to you very soon. I'm so excited!!

Lyn     

[lizdb]

Hi
I havent got deeply into this plot - but I did read your first post and a thought occured to me. You may have already done it
Are the Morrison famliy still at the same address in 1901? I know the key player, Ann, has left and married (if she is the same person)

If they ARE there, but without Ann, it would add evidence that Ann Mann and Ann Morrsion are the same. It would be very far fetched for the Morrisons to move out, the Manns to move with a daughter the same age, and then for the Morrisons to move back again!
If they ARE there, but still with Ann, then there are two Anns.
If they arent there - nothing is gained and it was a waste of time!

Just a thought

[mosiefish]

Hi Again,

Looking back to the 1841 entry for Thomas Rodgett transcribed as Rodegtt - Reference  H107/525/6 Folio 38 page 28.   
There is a 15 - 19 year old Robt. Rodgett  - hmmm!  I wonder if he might actually be Robert Fishwick Hannah`s son? 

Marriage on www.lan-opc.org.uk of Ann Fiswick SPINSTER to Thomas Rodget BACHELOR  at St. Laurence, Chorley 7th February, 1831.  Witnesses were William and Susan Aspinall.

Regards,
Mo

[heywood]

Well done Mo - it looks as though it's coming together now. I hadn't been able to get them together for 1841.

lizdb - you are so right - just supposing we had done all this and then found out it was the wrong one  - -
I had already checked that and perhaps mo and stanleymansion had done too-
thankfully all is well and it looks as though Ann is the right one.

best wishes to you all
heywood

[Richard Knott]

The link between Ann (b1865) and William/Alice Mann is quite compelling. As is the link between Ann Morrison (nee Rodget) and Robert Fishwick.
I'm stll not at all clear as to why Ann put Robert as her father or what the link is between the Manns and Fishwicks.

Richard

[heywood]

here's how I see it (I think)
Ann Fishwick has illegitimate son Robert. She then marries Mr Rodget.
Then I got stuck - but Mo found them as Rodegtt in 1841 and Ann is the daughter of Thomas and Ann Rodget. She would then be half sister to Robert Fishwick (in 1841 census as Rodegtt??)
Ann Rodget marries Isaac Morrison.
Elsewhere -  Alice Ross marries William Mann. He dies. She has a child Ann (b 1865) with Robert Fishwick who has been married, widowed and remarries later (if Mo's info is the same Robert). Alice possibly dies not long after birth (there is a possible death)
FOr whatever reason, perhaps  because he is a lone dad, Robert does not rear his daughter but she is reared by Ann and Isaac as a daughter but in reality she is the child of Ann's half brother, Robert.
I have to say, I haven't verified all the info- only what I have posted. It has been fascinating and I do hope that it does work out.
Kath

[mosiefish]

Hiya,

Well put Heywood. 

By the way, Alice and William Mann can be found on the 1841 census under the name MAUN. They are living on Halliwell Road, Little Bolton. Also living with them is a John ROSS and William ROSS both down as aged 15 so 15 - 19.  HO107/536/8 folio 41 page 10.   

I am sure we have the right Alice and family now.

Regards,
Mo

 

[stanleymansion]

Hi!

This is the most amazing 'adventure'! I have spent almost all day checking the various references, cross referencing and writing it all down. I have found sites I haven't previously visited thanks to you all!

Kath, thanks for setting that all down that's exactly the conclusion I have just reached but couldn't possibly have spelled it out as you did! Or even got anywhere like this far without your help!

So yes basically Ann Mann was brought up by her Dad's (Robert Fishwick) half sister (Ann Morrison nee Rodgett). Ann Mann's half brother William Mann (b.1854) went to live with the Ross family following Alice's death in 1866.

The only puzzles remaining are 1) I doubt I'll ever trace Robert Fishwick's Dad and 2) there's a problem with good old Ann or Hannah Fishwick! 
On www.lan-opc.org.uk  there are

1) Hannah Fishwick born to Thomas Fishwick and Ann baptised 16.11.1794 living in Charnock Richard.

2) Ann Fishwick born to Thomas Fishwick and Ellen born 7.11.1796 baptised 12.1.1797, living I presume in Chorley. And ... .... wait for it ... ... yet another one

3) Ann Fishwick born to Thomas Fishwick and Ellen born 18.4.1798 baptised 20.5.1798, again living in Chorley!

I can't locate a burial for the first of Thomas and Ellen's girls.

Also both Robert Fishwick b. 1822 and James Fishwick b. 1818, who would seem to be brothers from the census info as they are both sons, have mothers Hannah and Ann respectively!

This family is truly doing my head in!!

Thanks Kath and Mo for all your research and everyone else who has chipped in. My Dad will be chuffed to bits when I tell him about his Grandmothers early life. Whether or not he wil believe me is another matter!

Thank you so much,
Lyn