ANN / ALICE MANN - A Penny For Your Thoughts

[stanleymansion]

Hi 

I am trying to trace the early years of my Great Grandmother ANN MANN and would welcome any thoughts, contributions ..

ANN married WILLIAM HALLIWELL on 20 July 1893 at St. Peters Parish Church in Chorley. I have a copy of the marriage cert which shows her as a spinster, a weaver, living at 88 Harpers Lane, Chorley, father, a spinner, ROBERT FISHWICK (deceased).

I have established that at the time of her marriage she was living in a house who in the 1891 census, 2 years before her marriage, was occupied by a family of Morrisons. This family were together in the 1881 and 1871 censuses although living at a different house within the Chorley area. Strangely, or not, there was an Ann who is shown as a Morrison (twice shown as a daughter and once as a niece). This Ann is shown as having been born in Bolton about 1865; the rest of the family are Chorley. I have got the birth certificate For ANN MANN born 11 Lodge Vale, Bolton 5 Jan 1865. Her mother is ALICE MANN formerly, what looks like 'Rofs'? The father's name is not given. Alice didn't 'sign' the cert but made her mark. 

I haven't been able to locate a birth record for an Ann Morrison in either Chorley, Bolton or anywhere nearby around 1865. My thinking is that ALICE perhaps handed over her daughter ANN to the Morrison family sometime between her christening (found on Family Search) on 26 March 1865 and the 1871 census. Possibly no legal transfer/adoption as ANN was using the name MANN at her marriage.

I seem to have reached stalemate here! I'm fairly certain ANN MANN/ ANN MORRISON is one and the same person. Does that seem reasonable? I can't locate ALICE MANN and I don't know where to start looking for the possible ROBERT FISHWICK!

After her marriage it's all straight forward and quite normal

Your comments are welcomed. Thank you!



 

[heywood]

Hello and welcome to rootschat

well here's a bit more to the mystery - provided all the people are the relevant ones of course :

Marriage: Isaac Morrison to Ann Rodget 1852

1851 census  HO107; Piece: 2263; Folio: 253; Page: 26
Leigh Row Chorley
Thomas Rodgett  49 yrs  handloom weaver b Chorley
Ann Rodgett 52 yrs b Chorley
Ann Rodgett daur 18 yrs piecer in cotton mill b Chorley
James Fishwick son 32 yrs sawyer journeyman b Chorley
John Fishwick nephew 17 yrs labourer b Cheshire Seacombe

by the way Ann is daughter on all the censuses

best wishes
heywood

[heywood]

Can't be sure of the Rodgetts in 1841.
Can't quite work out relationships in 1851. Thinking that perhaps Ann was formerly Fishwick- James her son and John her husband's nephew? Although they are shown as son/nephew of Thomas as he is head.
Will carry on for a while.

Hope I'm complicating matters too much here - Family Search has a John Fishwick born to Hugh and Elizabeth Wallasey. They are in 1851 census- born Chorley living Seacombe. So that kind of puts them together.

[mosiefish]

Hi,

O.K. I went off on a bit of a tangent with some possibly interesting results (or not).

I just cut the census bit out as it has been found for you but wondered about the possibility of Ann bring up another brothers child e.g.  Robert Fishwick.

Anyway typing in a Robert Fishwick born Chorley brings up one on the 1851 census aged 28 living in Chorley.  1861 he is a widow living in Walton le Dale.  1871 he is married again living in Atherton BUT he has children born in HALLIWELL.  This is where your Ann Mann was born - Lodge Vale is in Halliwell, Bolton.  It is also the place that Ann Morrison and family states as being born in the 1891 census.  

I am sure there is a connection with it all but just haven`t figured it out yet.  

I just thought you should know.

Regards,
Mo

[heywood]

Hi Mo,
found a James Fishwick born 1818 Chorley to Ann Fishwick on Family Search. Not sure if it is a red herring though at the moment - also not sure if the Thomas Rodgett I have found in 1841 married (possibly - because it doesn't show relationships) to Mary is the same one who is married to Ann in 1851.

[heywood]

Robert Fishwick sounds plausible.

Ann Rodgett would be sister/ half sister/ step sister to the Fishwicks??

[heywood]

Family Search - Robert Fishwick born 1822 Chorley- mother Hannah Fishwick

[heywood]

So .....perhaps....
Robert Fishwick is brother of some kind to Ann Rodgett who marries Isaac Morrison and raises Ann as a daughter.
There are a couple of Alice Mann's as I recall- quite young on 1861 in Bolton area- 11/ 12 yrs making them only 16/17 yrs in 1865 - Robert would be so much older and also Alice was formerly 'Rofs'.

would be glad of your opinion mo.

best wishes
heywood

also one who is a widow with several young children but she's remarried by 1871. Am stuck now so will stop.

[mosiefish]

Hi Heywood,

I feel sure we are on the right track here.  Robert Fishwick is certainly living in the right place at the right time and he was a Cotton Spinner as stated on Ann`s marriage.  As for the births of Robert and James as we know on Parish/census records Ann and Hannah are interchangeable as it depended on what the person recording it felt like writing. 

A pity the Bolton/Halliwell parish records are not very well documented on the internet.  I have checked the 1861 and 71 census CDs for the people who were living at  11 Lodge Vale but there are no obvious clues.

By the way, Stanleymansion, the Alice Mann formerly Rofs should probably read formerly ROSS.  It is the old fashioned way of writing a double s.  This would suggest that either she was a widow or still married at the time of Ann`s birth.

Regards,
Mo