Identity requirements Royal marines in the 19th & early 20th centuries

[iamray]

I have been researching my wife's grandfather who was a Royal Marine, joining the corps in 1879 and possibly re-enlisting after 21 years of service as someone else. My questions are:
1. What idenity documentation did a man need when he joined the Royal Marines in the 1870's?
2. What idenity documentation did a man need when he joined in 1901 - 1903?

I'd like to know because I think that when he joined first he listed his birthplace as Liverpool when he was probably from Ireland and was underage i.e., under 18.
In 1901 after he had been discharged after 21 years service and three years as a civilian he disappeared and someone has suggested he might have rejoined under an alias.

Anybody have any thoughts on any of the above?

Regards
Ray Lewis Hazelmere Western Australia

[wizz123]

What was your wifes Grandfather called,as having his name,could help in tracing his were abouts,at the time he seemed to disapear.

                                 Kind Regards
                                      Wizz

[iamray]

Grandfather was John Denny and there is no trace of him in the prisons, in the hospitals (medical and mental) or the various passenger lists to USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand or South Africa both for the year that he disappeared (1902) or later. It was as if he was abducted by aliens or that he rejoined the military which is why I want to know about identity requirements.

Regards
Ray Lewis
Hazelmere Western Australia

[Hackstaple]

Men who enlisted back then - 1879- were whoever they said they were and whatever age they claimed to be.

If he had been so very long away from his place of birth it is probable that on discharge he was in the area of Chatham, Kent. Where was he at the time of the 1901 census? With whom was he living?

If he wished to reenlist and had received an honorable discharge and pension after 21 years service it is hard to see why he should choose an alias and reenlist at the lowest rank. I am not sure why reenlistment under an alias is the thing that comes to mind as it is one the more unlikely possibilities.

[iamray]

I have his enlistment attestation. On that he gives his name as John Henry Denny born Liverpool 28 December 1858. He was in Pontypridd, South Wales at the time of the 1901 Census living with his daughter, rmy wife's mother, aged 4, (actually nearly  6 years old). Aged 42, he was working as a labourer and gave his birthplace as Ireland. We think his older daughter, aged 12, was in a Salvation Army home in Portsmouth but enquiries to the SA have led to nothing.

He would have received an honourable discharge after 21 years of service all of which according to his service record he served as a private. The possibility of him re-enlisting in the RM is remote but it was one suggestion made by one of my colleagues as the list of other probable destinations became smaller and smaller. He might have joined the Army or the RN (after all he had spent a number  of years at sea), but to date enquiries about a John Denny in the Army and Navy at the time have led nowhere. Were all Royal Marines discharged at Chatham?  John Denny spent his RM service in the Plymouth division and presumably would have been discharged from there.

Our problem has been that we can find nothing about him anywhere subsequent to his disappearance on 31 December 1901 and are thus grasping at straws.

Regards
Ray Lewis
Hazelmere Western Australia

[Hackstaple]

I see from the 1901 Wales census that his daughter, Kathleen was born at Stonehouse, Devon. That would be the Royal Marine Barracks there. So it may be that he remained there until his discharge. Exactly why he should pitch up a year later in Pontypridd working as a labourer, and accompanied only by his young daughter, must be a story in itself.
I have looked in all the places that I can think of and have not found his death.
Louisa Denny, age 11, born Plymouth, was indeed in the Salvation Army Women's Hostel in Portsmouth at the 1901 census.

[iamray]

It is an intriguing problem. He was discharged 24 August 1898 so it took about three and a quarter years for him to disappear from his Pontypridd address. Where he had been in the meantime is anybody's guess His other daughter's presence in the SA home in Portsmouth could mean that he went to Portsmouth (another RM division) after his discharge from Plymouth but why she ended up there is extremely puzzling. She may well have been the Helena JS Denny who married Henry Churchman in 1911 but we haven't been able to trace any descendants from the couple to date. There is a Gladys  Churchman b 1913 Portsmouth but the mother's maiden name is Churchman which indicates that the child could have been illegitimate. Also an H T Churchman of the Somerset Light Infantry commeorated on the CWGC website might be Helena's husband but we don't know.

As for deaths, there are a number of John Denny's who have died after December 1901 but we have no idea if any of them are the right one.

It is possible that he left his daughter(s) behind to get married again and there are a number of Denny marriages but once more we have no idea if he was one of them.

My wife would like to know what happened to her grandfather but at this distance in both time and place we are unlikely to find out.

Thank you for your interest

Regards
Ray Lewis
Hazelmere Western Australia