Herbert Scott Young

[Lace34]

All was going very well researching my Grandfathers side of the family tree until l stumbled across his birth certificate and other papers...

Herbert Scott Young dob: 01/01/1923 was the son of Robert William Young and Ethel Gertrude Harris. Herbert had a brother, also named Robert William and a sister Elizabeth (Bessie).

Bessie died in her teens from T.B.

Robert William Jnr was killed during the second world war.

**Edit**
l think most of the above is hearsay after some researching lve done today and lve also managed to shock myself.

lve found that Ethel Gertrude Harris, married 3 times. Never once was she married to Robert William Young (as far as l have seen so far) Plus l can not find any records linking my grandfather to any of the guys she married. lf anyone would like to check to assure me that lm not going insane please do so.
What l found was the following:

Ethel G Harris  m Scott Kurr Young 1916 HRO/63/115

Ethel G Young m Robert W Usher 1921 HRO/70/137

Ethel G Usher  m Albert E Myres 1929 JB/4/340

As l said l can not find any reference to my poor grandad who is convinced his father is RW Young!

l have a copy of my grandads birth cert which Ethel got in 1928 when she registered the birth of Bessie, on the cert the father is said to be deceased but on the other side it says that Robert W Young was his father, l can not find any record of Roberts death.

lm very confused now as l too believed that Ethel and Robert were married.



Any Help/ advice would be great

Rach.

[Manchester Rambler]

Who is named as Herbert's father on the "right" side of the certificate?

Rambler

[Lace34]

Hello,
lt says that Robert William Young is the father. But as far as l am aware Robert died in 1918, which confuses us more.

lm currently searching info on Roberts death now. The only other RW Young was my grandfathers brother who l am also researching as l type.

Thanks
Rachel.

[jillruss]

It is confusing, isn't it?     But fascinating!

Plenty of questions, if that's okay!!

1. Are you absolutely sure that the Ethel G of the 3 marriages is the same person?

2. Have you found deaths for husbands 1 & 2?

It's obviously significant that your Herbert Scott Young has been given the middle name 'Scott' - making you think that his father was Scott Kurr Young. However, it seems that, by the time of Herberts's birth in 1923, Ethel was married to Robert Usher! (perhaps a 'homage' to her deceased first husband - possibly also a friend of husband no. 2?)

3. Was Scott Kurr Young any relation to Robert William Young? Do you have Robert W's birth certificate? Scutt Kurr is a rather unusual name for GB. It sounds American to me - were the US in the war by then?

4. Does Herbert's birth certificate give his mother's name as Ethel G. Young (nee Harris) or just Ethel G. Harris?

5. Don't you think it's interesting that Ethel G's 3rd husband was called Robert W Usher? Is there any chance that your Robert William and this Robert W Usher could be one and the same (i.e the person she was married to when she gave birth to Herbert)? Why would he change his name? Could the registrar have made a mistake and written the wrong name on the marriage certificate? (it happens!)

Incidentally, where did all this take place?

I'll shut up now...

Jill

[Lace34]

Hi,

Ive pretty much been asking myself the same questions (repeatedly over and over hoping l had gotten something wrong but lve checked and rechecked smack my head against the desk, wall and so forth...)

l will try fill you in on what l know for certain, hopefully some if not all questions will be answered. 

Herbert Scott Young is my grandfather, born 01/01/1923. Its only recently that he has really opened up to me about his childhood as lm now his carer due to ill health. He told me:

His mum  Ethel Gertrude Harris was married to his (supposed) dad Robert William Young. He isnt sure when they married and he never saw his dad as he died 'at sea' before Herbert was born. Ethel then went on (as far as he knows and is most certain) to marry Roberts Brother Scott Young. After Scott died Ethel married a mean man named Albert Myres. Herbert Had a brother also called Robert William and a sister Elizabeth (Bessie) All with the surname Young as far as we know but we have found no proof as of yet that the latter actually were 'Young'.

Now onto your questions, l will try my hardest to make this understandable (lol)

l am pretty sure Ethel G is the same person as all previous surnames fall into place with specific time lines.

Yes l have found deaths for Scott and for Albert to fit with dates given by documents at my grandads but there are no records stating the date of death for RW Young snr, The only record l found online at yorkshire bmd was a Robert William Young who dies in 1918 way before my grandad was born.

Your right having 'Scott as a middle name does ring alarms dosent it, great minds think alike!

Scott Young was (according to my grandad) Robert W's brother. again we have no real evidence to support this.

Kurr does sound a bit strange to be GB. lm not sure if the Us were in the war at the time but l will check that out, good point!

Herbert's birth cert says 'Mother- Ethel Gertrude Young (15) Late Young-Formerly Harris'

Yes l really do believe that RW Young and RW Usher are one in the same. lts far too much of a coincidence. Do you think there could have been a mistake? Could Ethel have registered Herbert in the absence of his father and just called him Young so as to cover up whatever it was she was trying to hide? My grandad said he had never seen his dad, he has never seen his original birth certificate! We have never found the original just a copy that his mum got made in 1929. lm almost scared to see whats on the original. (But at the same time so determined to find out whats gone on!!)

All this took place in Kingston upon Hull.  We all live/lived East Hull, Sutton.

lm off to check out the war thing before my head starts hurting!

Hope this dosent confuse matters more (my family are being difficult enough it would seem!!)

Rachel

[jillruss]

I think it might possibly be as simple as a mistake on the marriage certificate of Ethel and Robert W. If this is the correct marriage to Robert W Young, it would make sense a) of your grandfather not remembering him, and b) of Robert W. agreeing to give his son the name Scott in remembrance of his brother.

Or! it could be as complicated as it sounds! Are you saying that you haven't found a birth for either Robert William Young or Scott Kurr Young (sorry if it's there somewhere, I can't see it   )? I may be completely barking up the wrong tree (or just barking!) but was Scott a name used much in England in the early 1900s? Were these brothers Americans/Canadians who came over to fight in the war and is that why you can't find their births?

From what your grandfather has told you about his father dying at sea,it sounds as if he was probably in the navy ( a navy! GB?/US?/Canadian?). And Hull is a port! I'm not up on these things but, aren't there separate death records for people who died in the forces(possibly on Find My Past)?  Might be worth checking out?

Any luck with the witnesses to the various marriages?

Sorry I keep asking questions instead of answering any! Really helpful!

Jill

[jillruss]

Just found a death for Robert W Young in Dec quarter of 1925 in Hull - ref.9d 316. (on Ancestry)

Could this be him?

Jill

[jillruss]

Sorry - forgot to add - this Robert W was only aged 35 at death, so looking very promising!

Jill

[Lace34]

It sure does!

As l said it does state on Herberts Birth cert that RW was dead at the time the copy was made so it fits in with the timeline.

And his death falls 2 years after Herberts actual birth, l know lve already ordered Herberts Birth cert, but lm wondering if its worth getting hold of the Scott/Ethel marraige cert as well. Getting a copy of the RW you just found death cert could be a possibility too. (At least it would be something to show my grandad that really did have his dads (?) name to it. All depending of course on what info is given.

l found the marraige details on Ancestry too as well as yorkshire bmd, can not seem to find Ethels marraige to RW Usher now mind you, but it is getting late.

l will start looking into everything again in the morning after lve dug around some more at grandads. lm sure there must be something somewhere that connects.

l will let you know if l find anything, if not then its back to the researching nationalities of those 2 brothers!

Rachel