smallwoods

[scotmum]

Hello Hatchet

James Smallwoods and Elizabeth Smallwoods did indeed marry in Blantyre and have the respective parents as noted in my earlier post (and yes, another researcher did mistakenly have James' parents as Joseph and Eliza but, at my suggestion and on checking the marriage at scotlandspeople, has now, I believe, corrected same) - the  marriage entry is for 1892 and ties exactly with the number of years married of 19 as  stated on the 1911 Ireland census for the couple.   

James was about 10 years older than Elizabeth and a widower. I have no proof as yet, but suspect his first marriage may have been the one in 1886 between a James Smallwoods and a Margaret Jane Miller, and indeed,  a Margaret J Smallwoods appears on the death index for 1889 aged about 21, which could obviously also fit . 

Certainly, neither James nor Elizabeth were in Blantyre at 1881, and their first child was born in Ireland by 1894, so it seems likely they travelled there specifically to marry, and both gave their residence as the same house from which they married. The marriage was in accordance with the Free Church of Scotland, which would tie with their Presbyterian background in Ireland. Obviously, it is highly likely that James and Elizabeth were cousins of each other at some level, given the close proximity of the various Smallwood/s families who were clustered in and around the Lower Cumber area. This too, still requires some further work to untangle the lines (not helped by so many repeating use of  the same forenames for children born in similar timescales).

[majones79]

Hi,

Just thought i'd drop a post in as well to register myself in the Smallwoods lines. I'm the above mentioned by Scotmum....james and elizabeth are my great grandparents. I have a picture of them with various members of the family and i also have a photo of their grave if anyone is interested. My query now is to determine the link between their fathers...Samuel Smallwoods (James's father) and Joseph Smallwoods (Elizabeth's father). As mentioned before....It seems very probable that they are related. This obviously means that my great grandparents, James and Elizabeth, would be cousins of some sort.

Mark

P.S. Thanks Scotmum for the nod in the right direction....2years of confusion cleared up in 2 days 

[scotmum]

Well, as a starting point for you, Joseph Smallwoods and Eliza(beth) Simpson married at Holy Trinity C of I in Cumber Lower on 26/11/1866, so getting an opportunity to check the record might be helpful.

update:

Or, check out the marriage of same date on familysearch....which suggests a widowed Joseph Smallwoods married a widowed Eliza Greer, which names his father as Thomas Smallwoods and her father, Robert Simpson  (Eliza Simpson having married William Greer in Upper Cumber in 1856) .

Which makes me now think Joseph was probably one and the same Joseph who married a Margaret Bovaird at Holy Trinity on 1/9/1857, as that Joseph's father was also noted as Thomas (Joseph and Margaret had children, so if it was same Joseph, would need to check what became of them)..

This in turn makes me wonder if, whilst the index at familysearch gives an Annabella Smallwoods born in Londonderry in 1882 (and who you, I think, have on your tree as [Anna]Bella, daughter of Joseph Smallwoods and Eliza Simpson,   but with no marriage or death details -  do you have any source record confirming the name and parentage?), this was perhaps a mistranscript and the birth was actually of Isabella Bovaird Smallwoods, as I have been wondering if Joseph Smallwoods and Eliza Simpson could have been Isabella's parents, as when she married William Hamilton in 1909, they named their 2nd born daughter Elizabeth Simpson Hamilton.

More to ponder on. Thoughts welcome.

[majones79]

Hi Scotmum...

Confused? I'm confused just reading it let alone understanding it. I've attached a few pictures which i think are of relevance. The first is from a grave in Glendermott cemetary and the second is the marriage record of a joseph and Eliza. It states his father as James Smallwoods but her father as Robert Simpson so either the family search record has been entered wrong or there is a weird confusion here that i don't understand

back to you...lol

Moderator Note: image removed- please transcribe information rather than pasting it here

[scotmum]

 Ok, firstly the photo....and this may confuse you further, but.....given the dates of death of the Joseph and Elizabeth on that and the adjacent headstone, I think that grave belongs to Elizabeth Simpson Hamilton, daughter of William Hamilton and Isabella Bovaird Smallwoods. Elizabeth married a Joseph Smallwoods and one of her siblings married a Christina Smallwoods, probably around the 1930/40s

Next the marriage, goodness, it is obvious one of the sources has transcribed the record wrongly re Thomas or James....but which one? Which source is yours from? Best option would be to try and get to see original yourself (I think on microfilm at either Coleraine Library or Proni).

Ervey is good, as it is a known townland linked with Smallwoods name.

Will have another think and comment further later.

ps

I already happen to have the above photo.....did you notice the odd wording on left grave.....it talks about dear wife in respect of Elizabeth......but then shows her death year as after Joseph's(unless her death year should read 1965, not the 1985 it looks to read).

[majones79]

Marriage:   26 Nov.1866 Cumber Lower         
Joseph Smallwoods, Ervey, Church of Ireland, labourer, widower, father- James Smallwoods shoemaker
Eliza Simpson, Lettermuck, Church of Ireland, widow, father- Robert Simpson, labourer
witnesses: James Kincaid, Matthew   Simpson

Source: http://www.rootsireland.ie/

(sorry mods)

I guess without the actual marriage cert we won't know if it or the familysearch record is correct.

To clear things up, is this what you think...

Joseph Smallwoods (previously married to Margaret Bovaird) married a widowed Eliza Greer (previously married to William Greer)?

If in fact, bella smallwoods born 1882 (from familysearch and 1911 census) is Isabella Bovaird Smallwoods, they gave her the name of his late first wife Margaret Bovaird?

[aghadowey]

The actual marriage certificate does not give religion of bride and groom- RootsIreland seems to include this as a 'fact' based on the church where marriage took place.

[majones79]

edit to previous post...

Bella Smallwoods born 1882 (from familysearch and 1901 census not 1911)

[scotmum]

Yes, your summary of my thoughts are accurate.

Regarding this, a niggle at moment is the only death in timescale of a Margaret Smallwoods was not in Londonderry area, albeit in neighbouring area, so not impossible.

Also, an update on thoughts re Isabella Bovaird Smallwoods:-

Yes, agree, I did wonder would a mum be happy having her child given the middle name which was surname of her hubby's first wife. So, thinking cap on, and other possible scenario is:

1)The Bella Smallwoods you have at 1901 was indeed Anabella b 1882 and is therefore possibly the Bella Smallwoods who died in Londonderry in 1908 (albeit birth year given as 1889).

2) Remembering my comment that Joseph Smallwoods and Margaret Bovaird had children....one such was William Smallwoods born 1860....possibly the same William seen here at 1901

 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Waterside/Lismacarrol/1539434/

and including a daughter Isabel aged 11. This Isabel was born in Londonderry in 1889, with no obvious middle name indicated on familysearch, so her birth year fits better with the 1908 death, but, If this William was the son of Joseph and Margaret, then this Isabel could quite possibly have been given the middle name Bovaird, perhaps when christened. Certainly, if she was not the Bella who died in 1908, she would have been of a marrying age in 1909, when Isabella Bovaird Smallwoods married. Interestingly, you will note that this William was a Shoemaker. But, by 1911

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Waterside/Drumahoe/605581/

 this family group show that they had 11 children born and only 8 still living.....all 8 are still at home......no Isabel.....which again, given her birth year of 1889, points to her as having been the Bella who died in 1908.....just to keep things confused.

So, is Isabella Bovaird Hamilton (nee Smallwoods) naming her daughter Elizabeth Simpson Smallwoods a red herring perhaps...the jury is still out on this at moment.