COLEMAN born NSW 1836

[Mimble]

Hullo
My great great grandfather Edmund Francis Coleman was born in Sydney NSW in 1836. I am trying to find out more about his origins.

I know that at the age of 27 he was a farmer in South Africa when he married Margery Hester Moodie in Smithfield, Orange Free State in 1863. Their children were Georgina Marian Johanna Coleman, Tommy Coleman, Evelyn Coleman and Lucreza Coleman. Georgina (Josie) married Thomas Benjamin Hulley - they were my great grandparents.

Looking for Edmund's parents in NSW, I found his birth record at http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/IndexSearch?form=IndexingSearch&SessionID=6728433&sname=coleman&gname=edmund&fname=&mname=&event=births&frange=1836&trange=&place=&x=68&y=14
giving his parents as George and Maria. Anne M 1832 and Thomas B 1834 are also recorded as siblings.

How can I find out more about them? Could George have been a convict (and/or Maria?) I have searched through some convict indexes and have found two George Colemans.

Last name
Coleman
First name
George
Ship
Mangles
Year
1824
Ticket no
29/41
States Records shelf ref
Apr-69
States Records reel no
911

Last name
Coleman
First name
George
Ship
Lord Melville
Year
1829
Native place
NR
Trade or calling
NR
District
Northampton
Ticket no
48/207
States Records shelf ref
Apr-15
States Records reel no
961

Am I missing anything obvious? Any ideas as to how to proceed? I have some early photos of Edmund and Margery Coleman and their children to share.

Thanks
Mary

[CuriousDiana]

George Coleman, convict, received a certificate of pardon in 1831. He came out on the convict transport "Mangles" in 1824.  This information from www.records.nsw.gov.au   -  go to Indexes online.  You can order copy of this record if desired.

You will need to access "Convict Indents" or "Alphabetical lists of convicts" (at librarie, etc.) for more information.  If you think the above is worth following up, you can look up "Mangles" arriving 1824, and it should state where he was tried, age, etc. 

[Cazay]

Hi Mary

There is a marriage in 1826 for a John Coleman and Maria Wilks (three references in fact) and married at Parramatta St Johns.  The Colonial Secretarys Papers hold an entry for a George or John Coleman on the Mangles 1824 so looks like he went by both names but married under John Coleman.

Maria Wilks arrived on the Lord Wellington in 1820 and obtained her Certificate of Freedom in 1832. You can order a copy from the State Records of NSW website which Diana gave you.

The convict indents would hold information giving their ages, native place, trade, when and where convicted, sentence, personal description.  Are you able to look these up?

Also, the 1828 census of NSW should also say where they were living. You will probably need to start with their marriage and the birth of Edmund to help confirm these findings.

Cazay

[Mimble]

Thank you very much - this is all fascinating. I am in the UK so all of this is online. Are these convict indents or alphabetical lists of convicts, and the 1828 census online? if not, are they available on a CD? 
This is really taking shape now, thanks.
Mary

[Cazay]

Hi Mary

As you are in the UK I could do a lookup and see what sort of information I can find on John/George Coleman and Maria Wilks which will be in the next few days, whenever I get a chance to visit the library.

As you get more information it will become clearer whether or not they are the parents of Edmund.  Details of their trials would be held at the Archives in Kew.

It is rather exciting when you find that you have convicts in your tree.

Cazay

[annecaroline]

Hi Mary
The John Coleman & Maria Wilks are on the 1828 census
Details are
John Coleman -aged 30yrs,Protestant
Came free on the Lord Wellington 1820
occup shipwright
Abode -Cambridge Street Sydney

Maria Coleman age 25yrs ,Protestant
Came on the Lord Wellington 1820
Govt Servt -sentence 14yrs


The George Coleman who came Mangles 1824
Govt Svt to John Redman ,George Street,Sydney
Age 35yrs
sentence  7yrs

So they are two separate people
Annie

[Cazay]

Interesting   

And yet, Colonial Secretarys Index 1788-1825 states.......... COLEMAN, George or John, per Mangles 1824

How many Colemans were on board? AND, did she marry the John Coleman on the Lord Wellington?

Cazay

[Mimble]

Thanks, this is so interesting!

My feeling is that as John Coleman was a free person on the Lord Wellington, he would not have used the alias George. Pity,  because I need a George and Maria Coleman parents for my Edmund.

I wonder if the Mangles George/John married a Maria too?

Or the Lord Melville George?
I'd be grateful for any lookups possible.
Many thanks
Mary

[annecaroline]

Hi
I checked the Permission to Marry as Maria Wilks was a convict and needed permission-states husband John Coleman came Free.
There was no George Coleman on Permission to Marry.
There was also only one George on the 1828 census.
What I would suggest is to look at the birth entry in 1836 -these are actually Church Records as registration hadn't started then.
They are available in most reasonably sized libraries in Australia.
There just might be some extra information on them if you are lucky -like his occupation but at least it will tell you exactly where in NSW they were living.

Annie