James Keen (e)

[RosieJ]

Blimey Marion, you've been a very busy girl!!    Samuel may have named his children after his siblings.

I have found the family on the 1841 census for you:

Church Street, Broughton Gifford (HO107/1166, f 7, p 7)

Phillip Keen  45  Lab  Born in county
Isabella  40  Born in county
James  15       "
Rachel 15       "
Samuel  13     "
John  11         "
Frederick  9    "
William  7       "
Ann  5            "
Septimus  4   "
Emma  2        "

So that now gives you several extra children too!

The quality of the original census return is really poor and hard to read. On Ancestry they have transcribed the surname as Kerst! I discovered with my family (Shambrook) that there was such a variety of ridiculous ways the surname has been transcibed that I developed the art of choosing a more unsual name in the family and searching by christian name only! Mind you, it didn't work for Septimus as he is down as Stephens on Ancestry!?

Will have a look for Rachel, but wondered if she did actually marry Samuel West?

[RosieJ]

Scrub that last question - think I might have answered it myself!! They married Sept 1845, Bradford Upon Avon, vol 8, p 421. What date Samuel born in 1845?

[rarebit]

The date on the cert is 9/8/1845   Marion

[RosieJ]

Have found the death of a Rachel West, Mar 1846, Bradford Upon Avon, vol 8 p185.  That might explain why she's missing from the censuses.

I can't find Samuel West on the 1851 England or Wales census.

[rarebit]

Rowena     
What is the best way to find out who Phillips parents are ,I've looked on Familysearch the only Phillip I can find is Phillip Morgan Keen born 1896 in Broughton Gifford ,and Isabella I cant find her on there at all ,can you suggest any other way we can find them ,maybe we can get something on DVD from record offices    Marion

[yvonnelewis]

Hi girls!

I have found the date of Samuel & Rachel's marriage 

From IGI
Samuel West married Rachel Keen
29 SEP 1845    Broughton Gifford, Wiltshire, England

Which is just over a month after James birth.

Yvonne
 

[RosieJ]

Depends how quickly you need it. You could post a look up request on this board, but the parish record look-ups seem harder to get a reply on. Or you can probably buy a CD from the Wilts family history society (not sure how much this would cost though).
Alternatively, my mum and I have been saying for a while that we must get to the Wilts records office as we have ancestors from Downton, nr Salisbury. We're only 'next door' in Dorset so it's not too far for us to go in a day. I would be more than happy to look this up for you while I'm there, but we haven't arranged a date yet.

Have been hunting down Samuel West and this is what I have found:

1841 Census (HO017/1166/10, f 22, p 14)
B. Common, Broughton Gifford

Robert West  45  Wool Weaver  born in county
Elizabeth  35  Born in county
Samuel  15     "
William  14     "
Ruth  10         "
James  7        "
Ephraim  4     "
Elizabeth  1   "

1851 Census (Ho107/2452, f350, p32)
47 Marshes Road, St Woollos, Wales

Samuel West  27  Lodger  Labourer at factory  born Wilts, Broughton
Elizabeth  Wife of do  22  born  Wilts, Bradford
William  Son  11mo  born  Glamorgan, Pearne

Lodging with Huntley family

1861 Census (RG9/2655, f 42, p 11)
233 Athol Street, Liverpool

Samuel West  Head  39  Butcher  born Wilts, Broughton
Elizabeth  Wife  33  bron Wilts, Bradford
George  Son  8  Scholar  born Newport, Monmouthshire
Albert  Son  5  Scholar  "
Samuel  Son  3  born "
Thomas  1  born Liverpool
John West  Border  Mar  37  born Wilts, Broughton

Found a marriage of Samuel West Jun 1849, Newport, Monmouthshire vol 26 p 169. One of the other names listed is Elizabeth Smith.

So looks like poor James was brought up by his uncle and his father moved away and started a new family!

[rarebit]

I did think that was what happened ,poor  little soul !!!,he must be the one in the workhouse on the 1851 census ,I'll try and see if I can order a CD on line ,and it would be brilliant if you could do that for us when you go there ,be very grateful , looking at the census for Samuel West ,he travelled a bit as well did'nt he ,from Wiltshire to Wales then Liverpool ,i'll try for the CD now    :)Marion

[RosieJ]

Samuel might not have been the only one to have named his children after his parents. On one census there is a Thomas Keen who has children named George, Isabella, James, Phillip, Samuel and Eliza!! Talk about keeping it in the family!

I have found Phillip and Isabella on more census returns:

1851 Census (Ho107/1841, f 4, p1)
Church Street, Broughton Gifford

Phillip Keen  Head   52  Farm Labourer  born Wilts, Broughton
Tibella  Wife  53  Farm Labourer  born Wilts, Broughton
Septtums  Son  13  Farm Labourer  born "
Emma  Daur  11  Do Schoolar  born  "
Eliza  Daur  7  Do Schooolar  born  "

(Think the enumerator had a few literacy issues!)

1861 Census (RG9/1297, f 2, p 1)
Church Green, Broughton Gifford

Phillip Keen  Head  66  Pauper  born Wilts, Broughton
Isabella  Wife  63  born Wilts, Broughton

1871 Census (RG10/1923, f 27, p 3)
Brougthon Common, Broughton Gifford

Isabella Keen  Head  Wid  74  Pauper  Wilts, Boughton

1881 Census (RG11/2049, f 20, p 15)
Broughton Common, Broughton Gifford

Isabella Keen  Head  Wid  83  Widow of Agri Lab, no occuaption  born Wilts, Broughton Gifford
Mary Mortimer  Daur  Wid  61  Nurse  Born Wilts, Broughton Gifford


Phillip died in Jun 1868 (vol 5a, p76), Isabella died Jun 1884 (vol 5a, p 85), both in Bradford reg. district.