Southfleet records lookup please.

[tazzie]

   Thanks Casalguidi,


  I will have a good look at that site as there are loads of pages to go through it will keep me busy.


                        Thanks

                           Tazzie

[Eyesee]

BARGROVE
Thomas ye son of William and Margaret BARGROVE, was baptized June ye 5th 1723, by me J Price

From Southfleet registers on CityArk.

There was a burial for a John in 1734

[tazzie]

   Hi Eyesee


   Great thanks for that one .....can't start them all until my boys are at school so have sorted the dates to check ready.

 John buried 1734   12 April  was age 60 found him on the memorials listed above .

 John's(1734)  son was William(d1746 age 46) who was married to a Margaret(d1765 age 73)...so Thomas was Johns grandson.....does that make sense?


                      Tazzie

[Janie2552]

Hi Tazzie,
I've just joined Rootschat and found your messages about the BARGROVE family - I know you wrote them some time ago now, but thought I'd contact you in case you are still researching them.  I am a Bargrove, and the people mentioned above are in my tree - William is my 7x grandfather.  I have the direct line back to his grandfather (b c 1648). There are lots of Mary Bargroves, but I haven't been able to place the one you mention - did you ever find out?  If you have any questions about the family let me know - maybe I'll have some of the missing pieces of your jigsaw (or maybe you'll have some of mine)!  Best wishes, Janie   

[tazzie]

  Hi Janie .....

 Welcome to Rootschat

  Well yes I am still searching for the correct Mary. All I have is the marriage of Mary Bargrove to George Liscoe in 1813 in Bermondsey.
 There is a baptism in 1785 for a Mary Bargrove in St Saviour Southwark but no parents stated for the records. There is an Elizabeth b 1783 same church to a Chas. Bargrove & Sarah. I believe Sarah is Sarah Symonds and they married in 1775 Shoreditch.
 The only Charles mentioned on IGI gave me the link to Kent with Charles bap in West Wickham to a Thomas & Mary.... but without delving further it is speculation that this is the right Charles.
 It has been a while since I looked at them thats true so I will get my info out and see what else I can find that may give us a clue.

                 Tazzie

[Janie2552]

Hi Tazzie, I went to the National Archives today and while I was there I found details of Mary Bargrove's family! Her father was Richard Bargrove, a "carrier" from Sydenham, parish of Lewisham. I think it said he worked for the Earl of Dartmouth, but the writing in his will was difficult to say the least! Mary's mother was Sarah. Mary had one brother living at the time of the will in 1816, but I think she also had a brother Thomas who must have died by then. She had 4 sisters - Sara, Maria, Ann and Harriet. I think you're spot on with your thoughts that Charles is part of the family. As far as I know, Charles was one of Richard's brothers, along with Thomas, John Hope and William. Richard also had sisters - Anne and Mary.  John Hope married Maria Atkins, who mentioned George Liscoe in her will of 1843 - she left him £2! Richard et al's parents were indeed Thomas and Mary (nee Hope) m Westminster 1749 and lived in West Wickham. He was a yeoman.  All that said, I still can't link them into my line, but I know they fit somewhere as there is only one Bargrove family! Hope this info is useful to you and not too confusing! I have a chart of this family if you'd like me to email it to you.  Meanwhile, if I find anything else I'll let you know.  Best wishes, Janie. 

[tazzie]

 Hello Janie.....

 Wow.... you have been busy. That info is fantastic. I have typed them in on the web site so will down load them and have a good look.
 £2 ..... Well I always said they had money.
  I need to have a good look at all of this and try to place the people named.

  You are a real STAR....
  Best wishes to you

   Tazzie

[Valda]

Hi Janie

If you get a chance to go back to TNA it would be worth checking the Death Duty registers.

TNA  research guide

Death Duty Records, From 1796

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=107


'They show what happened to someone's personal estate (not freehold) after death; and what it was actually worth, excluding debts and expenses. They can give the name of the deceased, with address and last occupation, the date of the will, the place and date of probate, the names, addresses and occupations of the executors, and details of estates, legacies, trustees, legatees, annuities and the duty paid. They can also give the date of death, and information about the people who received bequests (beneficiaries), or who were the next-of-kin, such as exact relationship to the deceased. Tax was not payable on bequests to people within a closely defined family circle, and as a result the family relationship was often noted in the registers. In 1796, tax was not payable on bequests to offspring, spouse, parents and grandparents. In 1805, the exemption was restricted to spouse and parents. From 1815, only bequests to the spouse were exempt from paying tax. Because the registers could be annotated for many years after the first entry, they can include information such as dates of death of spouse; dates of death or marriage of beneficiaries; births of posthumous children and grandchildren; change of address; references to law suits, cross references to other entries, etc'


There are other Bargrave wills proved locally and held at Canterbury Records Office but not for Southfleet

http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p2/ekp_p2n_b.htm


Regards


Valda

[Janie2552]

Hi Valda,

Many thanks for the suggestions - I had never thought of checking Death Duty registers, but I will certainly do that when I next go to TNA.  I'm fortunate to only live about 6 miles away from there so I hope to go back in a couple of weeks.  I have only recently discovered it so I'm still finding my way around.  All suggestions on the best places to check out there are very welcome!

Hi Tazzie,

I was so pleased when I found the info you needed- such satisfaction! But I forgot to mention dates! Thomas was 1717-1794, I don't have details on his wife Mary. Their children were: Thomas 1750-1797, John Hope 1751-1828 & his wife Maria 1768-1843 (married 1786 in West Wickham), Anne 1753, Charles 1755 (m Sarah Symonds 1775 St Leonards Shoreditch), Mary 1759 (m John Fryer 1779 St Leonards), Richard 1760, but as yet no date for William. I am wondering whether Thomas (the elder) is actually a Thomas on my tree.  My Thomas is the one which you were checking out at the start, born 1723.  I have no details for him other than his birth in Southfleet Parish Register (on Medway Cityark) so maybe he moved away from the rest of his family in Southfleet or died, or maybe lied about his birth date for some reason. More delving needed! By the way, if you check out the West Wickham MIs some of your Thomas' family are on there.

Best wishes to you both,

Janie.