Joseph L CARTER - St Albans and Stanstead (Abbotts)/St Margarets

[CatOne]

Glad to be of help, Denise, nice to help break down a small brickwall even if I can't break down my own! 

I think there are too many coincidences for it not be the correct family. I thought originally maybe the Clay/Carter came from his mum, ie; remarriage or having Joseph pre marriage, but there is a marriage in 1818 that may fit, Thomas Clay to Sarah, maiden name Pearce (no sign of a Carter name) so maybe the Carter name is further back, would be interesting to see the family (plus Thomas and Sarah's parents hopefully) on the 1841 census to see if there are any clues.

Good Luck,
Regards
Catherine 

[benzon]

Perhaps if I say "pretty please" to Andrew he might look it up for me.

Andrew, would be much obliged if you pick up this thread whether you would do me the huge favour of looking this up for me.  If it is too much of a cheek, don't worry.

Cheers to all

Denise

[first-things-first]

Hi Denise

Quick check on my indexes shows no Joseph Clay of ages 5 - 10 living in Hertfordshire in 1841. Searched all parishes.

Assuming they lived there.

Will delve further.

Cheers

Andrew

[benzon]

Hi Andrew

Thanks for looking that up.

Hm, intriguing though.

Did a parent search for Thomas and Sarah Clay on the IGI which revealed the following all baptised St Albans -

Martha Clay 16 Nov 1828
Elizabeth Clay 3 Jan 1819 (this would fit with the 1818 marriage)
Sarah Clay 28 July 1822
Joseph Clay 05 May 1833
William Clay 05 May 1826

(Room for some others between 1828 and 1833 ??)

Then on Free BMD the possible death of a Thomas Clay at St Albans in Mar Q 1846

In 1851 found at Adelaide St, St Albans

Sarah Clay widow 55 schoolmistress b St Albans
Marth Clay dau 22
Joseph Clay son 18
Ellen Doggit visitor 24

By 1861 Sarah is at Marlboro Buildings, St Albans a 63 year old almswoman/governess living on her own.  Perhaps Thomas and Sarah were living elsewhere between 1833 and 1846?

Will do some more digging.

Thanks for all your input.

Cheers
Denise

[first-things-first]

Hi Denise

I have looked through "Jos* Clay" in 1841 census and cannot find any that match the IGI records. As I said before none in Hertfordshire. Also looked at Eliza* Clay, Martha Clay, etc. None came up that fitted. Maybe missing bits from census??

As an aside (maybe helps with later searches) there are families of Flacks and Clays living next door to each other in Mansfield, Nottingham - shown as weavers/knitting. Don't want you to veer off in a wrong direction though!

Do you think the Carter bit is a family christian name like it can be used in the US?

Could these be your flacks in the 1841 census?

Living in Lawshall Suffolk :

John Flack    b.1791
Betsey Flack   b.1797
Fanny Flack    b.1825
Mary Flack    b.1828
Eliza Flack    b.1829
Emily Flack    b.1833
Sarah Flack    b.1835
Ann Flack      b.1837

All born in County - living in WidenGreen? (something green).

Cheers

Andrew

[CatOne]

Looks like Elizabeth married John Beeson -

Marriage - Elizabeth Clay March 1842 St Albans Vol 6 Page 547
Grooms - John Beeson, John Richardson or Joseph Geary

1851 HO107/1713 Folio 249 Page 37
Adelaide Street, St Albans
John Beeson 34 Tinman & Brazier St Albans
Elizabeth 32 Bonnet Sewer St Albans
/
William Lichfield 32? unmar Lodger Tinman & Brazier Flamstead?

and in 1861 they're at Holywell Hill with "lodger" William Litchfield and his wife Martha + children. Martha is the right age to be Martha Clay and looks like this is the marriage -

William Litchfield June 1851 Luton Vol 3b Page 712
Brides - Martha Clay or Rebecca Mills

Regards
Catherine  

[CatOne]

Could this be daughter Sarah in 1841?

HO107/4/16 Folio 9 Page 13
Great Brassingham, Luton, Beds
Sarah Clay 20 FS Y
in house with -
Sarah Crawley 65 Farmer .. Y
Thomas 45 Farmer Y
William 35 Farmer Y

[benzon]

Hi You Two

Seems I have you both looking for my Clay Carter/Carter Clays.  I have spent the last couple of hours trying every which way to see what I could come up with and have drawn a blank.  Even went into The Times on Beds Library Service and entered Clay Carter/Carter Clay.  Only thing I could come up with there was a firm of accountants in London late 1800s.  As Joseph was a carpenter and William Clay Carter a builder dont think there can be a connection. 

You might be right about the christian name Andrew but I have even entered Carter as a christian name and Clay as a surname on the IGI and vise versa and drawn a blank.

Wondered if it was something to do with a profession but why is Joseph, Joseph Carter Clay and if this William is connected, why is he William Clay Carter.

Thanks for the marriages Catherine, I will add them to my file.  You are one step ahead of me.

While typing this just seen your further message.  A bit intriguing and I am sure this one is a red herring but mum's materal grandmother was a Crawley whose hubby (that's another BIG ?) was a Thomas but I have them in Wadesmill in 41 and he was a hairdresser.  Could be a connection somewhere but I will leave that one aside for now.

Just out of interest my Sarah Crawley was a Sarah Hutchin who connects up to hubby's lines.

If I can help either of you with your brickwalls let me know.  As has been proved here, two (or three) heads are sometimes better than one.

Cheers for now
Denise

[benzon]

Sorry, should have said.

William Clay Carter (if he is the William Clay baptised 1826) married Julia Tennant Gregory at St Pancras Dec Q 1853 9b 99.

Six children by 1871 but what actually also intrigues me is that none of the names of any of this William or Joseph's children seem to be previous family christian names.  Still, I expect that was too much to hope for.

Cheers
D