Pemberton family, Whitchurch

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

Welcome to RootsChat 

I'm willing to help and other RootChat members might join in, there's nothing better than a mystery to solve


Just to clarify your comment, do you think that the baptism of William to John and Jane is the correct one?  and where did you find the death of a 12 year old William ROUTLEDGE?  Who is your gt gt grandmother and do you know who her parents are ?

Sorry about all the questions but every little bit of info might help us solve the puzzle

Regards,
Daisy

[Narnster]

Hi Daisy

Many thanks for your response - I was so pleased to get a reply!   So...  my gt gt grandmother was Mary Lowes, nee Routledge and of that I'm sure.  I know her father was John Routledge from the marriage entry in the parish register.  According to Family Search there was only one Mary Routledge at that time/place and her mother was Jane.  (There is only one marriage for John Routledge that fits and that's to a Jane Hetherington.)  The Family Search baptism records look like Mary's siblings were Joseph 1821, Jacob 1823, Frances 1829, Jane 1831 and James 1836.  I didn't find William (1826) until I found this thread because he's shown as ROUTLIDGE but that year fits in with the family!!  The thing is that this William Routledge died in 1838, aged 12.  Looking through the censuses it is possible to follow the family as at one point father John is living with Jacob and James doesn't marry and sometimes lives with his sisters.

Faugh is a small village in the parish of Hayton and I guess there couldddd have been another John and Jane Routledge...  Unfortunately I don't have evidence to place William with this family as on the 1841 census father John is living with only the 3 youngest children.  (So either I have the wrong parents or this thread has the wrong William?)

One other curious point that is noteworthy - my gt gt grandmother's sister, Frances, had a big family, but basically she named them after all her brothers and sisters, every one of them except that there isn't a William!  So either he didn't exist in that family or he was a black sheep!!  (I've also just checked and my gt gt grandmother did exactly the same thing and there issss a William!)

I'm happy for you to pick holes in my theory!!!

Regards

Narnie

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

I you don't mind me asking, where did you find the death of a William ROUTLEDGE aged 12?

This site seems to have transcribed the "ROUTLEDGE - Hayton by Brampton - Baptisms/Marriages/Burials"

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01heh/


It shows birth of a William ROUTLEDGE,

1838       18 Oct    William s/ Thomas & Eleanor of Corft House, husbandman

and a death,

1838       24 Oct    William of Croft House, infant


It is also here,

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01heg/



Neither of these sites give access to the image so I can't see if there has been a mistrancription, I wonder if it says 12 days or Inf that looks like 12?

Is it possible that this is the death you found?


Daisy

[Narnster]

Hi Daisy

No, that isn't the William I meant, but in fact it's the second bottom on the second link that I was referring to.  The parents are John and Jane, it's the parish of Hayton and the birth year of 1826 slots in a childless slot in the family but it has been transcribed as ROUTLIDGE.

So, if I've got this right, the John and Jane Routledge (that I found mentioned in this thread) that I believe to be my gt gt gt grandparents had a son William in 1826 but he died aged 12 so can't be the same William that was married to the Pemberton lady.  Am I making sense?  I just think that either I'm wrong that this is my family or the William in this thread has been given the wrong parents.

What do you think?  Thanks for your help so far! 

Narnie

[Daisypetal]

I think that you are making perfect sense It's just an awkward puzzle


I just think that it is an awful coincidence for two William ROUTLEDGE/ROUTLIDGEs baptised in Hayton by Brampton to have the same death date 24 Oct 1838.
 
Have you seen the actual image of the parish record for the death or burial of the Willaim aged 12? I ask because the death date transcriptions from Familysearch are listed under the "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, so I wonder where they are getting the deaths from


The other transcription showing the burial of William ROUTLEDGE,
 
1838       24 Oct    William of Croft House, infant

gives more info than the Familysearch, it is shown as a burial rather than a death and gives the same address as the son of Thomas and Eleanor.



There is only one death registration that fits for a death or burial of a William ROUTLEDGE/ROUTLIDGE on the 24 Oct 1838,

William ROUTLEDGE    Dec Q 1838    Brampton   25  19

Personally I would have to get it to see who is the informant, hopefully it would be one of the parents, and then you could be sure which William it was.


Daisy

[Narnster]

I can't believe that I didn't notice that both dates of death were the same!!!   

I'm getting confused now lol!  I'm not sure how many WR's we have in the mix here!!  I'm going to the local record office tomorrow and will report back after I've been.

Do you mean get a death certificate to see who the informant?

Narnie

[Daisypetal]

Yes, I did mean I'd get the death cert. but if you can get to the local record office and hopefully see the actual parish record then you won't need it

Good luck

[Narnster]

Hi Daisy

Firstly, am I the only person on here who previews messages then forgets it's in preview mode so when you try to amend something you instantly lose everything you've typed!!!! 

Anyway, if I can remember what I'd written...

I've checked the parish register and there is only one William Routledge burial where FS states two.  The one I found is for the son of Thomas and Eleanor of Croft House so at least we now know that it wasn't 'our' William and it must be an error.  My next problem is how do I prove that William (Stoney's gt gt grandfather?) is the brother of Mary (my gt gt grandmother)?  This is important because we have the same parents for them.  I believe there were 7 siblings in all.  Is Stoney still active on here?  There's only one Mary that fits with all the details I have and I have amassed a reasonable amount of info on the family.  There only seems to be one William also!

One concern is that it seems that on Wm's marriage record (1853), his father was shown as a mason whereas on Mary's (in 1842) he was a labourer.  He was a labourer on all his children's baptism records apart from Jacob (b1823) where he was 'Asst Overseer of the Parish of Hayton'.  Also, on Wm's marriage date he is shown as aged 24 which would mean he was born c1829 and not 1826.  The date of baptism for the Faugh, Cumberland William Routledge was 30.5.26.  I know we have to take a few years here and there but the date of baptism is from the parish record.

Where do I go from here? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! 

Narnie

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

Sorry not to get back to you sooner but every time I try to help solve this I only seem to go round in circles 

I'm glad that you were able to sort out the burial, one less piece of the puzzle to sort out

I think that William could have lowered his age for his marriage to make the 10 year age gap look less. Calling his father a mason?  Perhaps he just wanted him to sound more than just a labourer?

If you can see the parish registers can you see what the other children said was John's occupation? Maybe he worked for a mason?

Is John dead by the time of the marriage? Just because it doesn't say deceased on the certificate doesn't mean he was alive, I've seen many certs that done mention that important fact!!

If you click on Stoney's name you will be able to see whether she has been online recently.


Sorry not to be able to help more.

Daisy